Page 20 | Nearly in a serious car accident - hand hold please

Usedandhurt · 2023-10-24T15:09:43+00:00

Im literally shaking. Just had a driver nearly kill me and my dc on the motorway. He/she must have not checked before they pulled onto the motorway from a slip road, I literally had to slam on the breaks to avoid crashing into them and thankfully the driver behind me and the one behind them etc etc were able to stop also. My dc would have been very badly hurt - it was a huge bus and I can only imagine the driver got distracted. Im a nervous driver at the best of times and Im literally sick with nerves.

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 25/10/2023 00:07

Rule 144 of the Highway Code states:

You MUST NOT drive dangerously

drive without due care and attention

drive without reasonable consideration for other road users

bus driver and OP were both breaking this one - op by not driving with reasonable consideration for other road users. Must have seen the bus, and could have either put her foot down to get in front of it, or eased off the accelerator to let him in front. Driving defensively is better than almost causing an accident whether the bus driver was technically in the wrong or not.

Rule 102 says:
The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.

OP should have given way to the bus, whether or not she was in the wrong it’s her responsibility to help avoid accidents

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/10/2023 00:17

OP should have given way to the bus, whether or not she was in the wrong it’s her responsibility to help avoid accidents

Given that the OP slammed on the anchors and consequently has an unpranged motor, I think it's safe to say that she did her bit to prevent the accident.

The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance

That's why I keep correcting posters who say ROW and remind them that it's priority.

FrankieStein403 · 25/10/2023 00:17

Look it's simple.
The highway code is irrelevant.

If op (or any other highway code warriors) wants to drive on busy motorways without getting frightened she needs to adapt her driving behaviour.

No amount of MN waffle "you were right, bus was wrong" will amend the behaviour of joining traffic.

In any case we only have op's word wrt the bus behaviour!

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/10/2023 00:20

she needs to adapt her driving behaviour.

I appreciate that this is a long and at times fast-moving thread, but PPs have suggested defensive driving classes.

LadyOfTheWagon · 25/10/2023 00:49

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 23:51

Truckers tend to work long hours (50-60 a week in general)

There's a large part of your problem. The 27 countries of the EU have the Working Time Directive 48 hour limit for a reason: namely that tired workers make mistakes. We should never have allowed employees to "choose" to sign opt-outs because we all know that not signing will be held against you even though on paper it shouldn't.

I understand everything you say about having a long heavy vehicle with poor visibility that doesn't accelerate quickly. I also understand that you risk jack-knifing and that some cargoes cause handling problems (e.g. liquid loads sploshing up and down in tankers). Anyone who has relatives (two uncles and an aunt) who drive wagons knows to give a HGV extra room on the road.

The OP was cut up by a bus though, and these lack the visibility and handling limitations that you describe, having windows in the body giving better visibility, being lighter, and not being articulated. The bus driver was just being an arse. He or she has priority when leaving a bus stop, but not when joining a motorway.

Edited

Actually, HGV drivers can't opt out of the '48hr average' rule - it's not a hard limit, it's an average that can't be exceeded over a three month reference period, meaning you can exceed it on occasion. The problem is that DVSA (not to be confused with DVLA) don't enforce it so it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

They only enforce the EU driving regs which stipulate no more than 60 hours working time. 'Working time' doesn't include breaks and POA (periods of availability) and drivers abuse the latter to stretch out their hours.

POA might be applicable if you're say on a ferry but might at any point need to jump in the truck and move it - pretty much like being on standby. It's neither work nor strictly a rest period where you could sleep. Unscrupulous drivers often put it on POA when they're making a delivery as it's hard to prove retrospectively when reviewing the tacho printout that they weren't actually waiting.

Big companies like Biffa stick religiously to the WTD but you could equally go on Indeed right now and find jobs adverting 'average week 55 hours'. Nobody does anything about this so companies exploit it to increase productivity and drivers exploit it to earn more money.

LoreleiG · 25/10/2023 00:55

Interesting perspective @LadyOfTheWagon

Despite being scared of lorries and keeping away wherever possible, I do feel for drivers of large vehicles, and how challenging the working conditions must be (despite never having done the job myself - pps, this is called empathy).

jlpth · 25/10/2023 00:58

I am very wary of large vehicles. Some of them are extremely skilled, but others just have a king of the road mentality and push out/through wherever they want. Sounds like the vehicle you encountered was going too fast and that the slip road has limited visibility - if you only saw the bus at the last minute, presumably the bus couldn’t see you either?

LadyOfTheWagon · 25/10/2023 01:02

The highway code is irrelevant.

This is actually true sometimes.

Imagine the situation where you're driving a 60ft arctic in city/rush hour traffic and need to turn right at a t-junction across two lanes. Waiting for an appropriately sized gap just isn't feasible.

When have you ever seen somebody leave a 60ft gap between themselves and the car in front in busy traffic? How about two drivers on opposite sides of the road doing this simultaneously and the two gaps conveniently lining up to allow space for the truck to join the traffic?

It never happens, which is why you wait for a gap in the near lane and then pull forward to block off that lane and wait for a gap in the far lane (somebody will almost always let you in within ten seconds but only if you're already halfway across the road).

DiscoBeat · 25/10/2023 01:27

Lots of people assuming the whole motorway was empty and you COULD move over. I've had this too, where the next lane is busy with no gaps. I really think there should be 'no overtaking' road markings at the points where traffic joins, so that people are able to pull over to allow people to join safely. If I'm in that lane I always ease up to allow people to give way to joiners.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/10/2023 01:44

DiscoBeat · 25/10/2023 01:27

Lots of people assuming the whole motorway was empty and you COULD move over. I've had this too, where the next lane is busy with no gaps. I really think there should be 'no overtaking' road markings at the points where traffic joins, so that people are able to pull over to allow people to join safely. If I'm in that lane I always ease up to allow people to give way to joiners.

Last time I looked, the long dashes mean "no overtaking". And most of the motorway junctions near me have long dashes between the left and middle lanes next to on-ramps. The problem is drivers not obeying the long dashes.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/10/2023 01:51

LadyOfTheWagon · 25/10/2023 00:49

Actually, HGV drivers can't opt out of the '48hr average' rule - it's not a hard limit, it's an average that can't be exceeded over a three month reference period, meaning you can exceed it on occasion. The problem is that DVSA (not to be confused with DVLA) don't enforce it so it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

They only enforce the EU driving regs which stipulate no more than 60 hours working time. 'Working time' doesn't include breaks and POA (periods of availability) and drivers abuse the latter to stretch out their hours.

POA might be applicable if you're say on a ferry but might at any point need to jump in the truck and move it - pretty much like being on standby. It's neither work nor strictly a rest period where you could sleep. Unscrupulous drivers often put it on POA when they're making a delivery as it's hard to prove retrospectively when reviewing the tacho printout that they weren't actually waiting.

Big companies like Biffa stick religiously to the WTD but you could equally go on Indeed right now and find jobs adverting 'average week 55 hours'. Nobody does anything about this so companies exploit it to increase productivity and drivers exploit it to earn more money.

Show quote history

That would explain why a) two of said relatives were very happy to stop driving and b) why haulage companies keep moaning about driver shortages. Most people don't want to work 55 hours per week.

Blackbyrd · 25/10/2023 02:28

OP's "update" about her conversation with a police officer is the biggest load of bullshit. No way would that be happening. It is laughable how many incompetents on here think a bus is going to fully stop on a slip road and then be able to join any road with fast moving traffic safely. That the OP maintains that she has seen this very thing happen regularly is another lie

SinnerBoy · 25/10/2023 02:34

Vito

Double white lines are no overtaking, long ones mean be cautious about overtaking.

IsThereABarUpThere · 25/10/2023 02:37

Sipping water trying not to cry?

Jesus.

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 25/10/2023 05:30

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/10/2023 00:17

OP should have given way to the bus, whether or not she was in the wrong it’s her responsibility to help avoid accidents

Given that the OP slammed on the anchors and consequently has an unpranged motor, I think it's safe to say that she did her bit to prevent the accident.

The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance

That's why I keep correcting posters who say ROW and remind them that it's priority.

Edited

The fact she had to dramatically slam on the anchors is the issue - if this was a motorway slip road it seems unlikely there was any need for that. She should have seen the bus attempting to get up to speed and anticipated her need to take action. The whole scenario could have been avoided entirely.

Hibiscrubbed · 25/10/2023 06:50

Usedandhurt · 24/10/2023 17:25

Thanks all for your response. I have had a lovely chat with the police officer who called me back to say he cannot get through to the bus company as the switchboard is closed for the night but he will be dealing with this in the morning. I again asked if I had behaved in any way incorrectly and he assured me not. Strangely, like the Highway Code states, the onus is on the person joining to ensure that it is safe, not everyone else to get out of his/her way. For all your lovely posters who were kind and caring - thank you - I really appreciate your support. For the rest, I dread to think what your driving record is😂

Did he witness the ‘near crash’?

Hibiscrubbed · 25/10/2023 06:54

She should have seen the bus attempting to get up to speed and anticipated her need to take action. The whole scenario could have been avoided entirely.

I sort of agree with this. Cars joining are long visible, as is their speed. We have to make space to accommodate them, even if the middle lane is busy (the easiest way to make space is to pull out, obviously, but otherwise drop back to make space) because they cannot be forced to stop at the end of a slip.

Marmalade71 · 25/10/2023 07:07

Sad I know but I've been thinking about this overnight and trying to work out why the OP got such an aggressive response (apart from it being AIBU!) The only thing I can imagine is that most don't have experience of junctions where this can - quite easily - happen and where the kind of gentle merging that people are advocating can't be assumed to work.

Our local junction was changed a few years ago to a 2 lane entry - the inner one turns into a lane and allows for easy, safe joining - it would need very poor driving for there to be a problem. The outer, right hand lane, ends within 10m of the end of the ramp and, by definition the traffic in that lane is moving fast. I try hard to avoid using it - visibility on both sides is appalling and, if a vehicle joins at speed, without carefully looking over shoulder at the last minute - there would definitely be times when a driver on the motorway would need to brake sharply to avoid an accident.
We don't know for sure this is what happened here, but some of the responses suggest people have never seen a junction like this.

KitCatKitty · 25/10/2023 07:20

Marmalade71 · 25/10/2023 07:07

Sad I know but I've been thinking about this overnight and trying to work out why the OP got such an aggressive response (apart from it being AIBU!) The only thing I can imagine is that most don't have experience of junctions where this can - quite easily - happen and where the kind of gentle merging that people are advocating can't be assumed to work.

Our local junction was changed a few years ago to a 2 lane entry - the inner one turns into a lane and allows for easy, safe joining - it would need very poor driving for there to be a problem. The outer, right hand lane, ends within 10m of the end of the ramp and, by definition the traffic in that lane is moving fast. I try hard to avoid using it - visibility on both sides is appalling and, if a vehicle joins at speed, without carefully looking over shoulder at the last minute - there would definitely be times when a driver on the motorway would need to brake sharply to avoid an accident.
We don't know for sure this is what happened here, but some of the responses suggest people have never seen a junction like this.

Or maybe lots of people here have experienced a car on the motorway who refuses to let them merge in. I don't use motorways much but the one way system where I live means you have to merge across lanes all the time. It's the most frustrating thing when someone hangs in your blind spot and doesn't speed up or slow down so you can merge. Sometimes it's possible for the person who wants to merge to speed up or slow down but sometimes it's not.

It sounds like the bus was aggressive but this incident could have easily been avoided by OP slowing down and letting him in, it's just basic courtesy.

ChristmasFluff · 25/10/2023 07:45

I'd like the name of the bus company so I can use that bus. All the buses I'm on go really slowly and take an age to get anywhere. I'd love to go on a bus that is faster than the speed of light so that it is completely invisible to OP until it suddenly appears in front of her without her seeing it coming up on the inside.

onamidsummer · 25/10/2023 07:46

KitCatKitty · 25/10/2023 07:20

Or maybe lots of people here have experienced a car on the motorway who refuses to let them merge in. I don't use motorways much but the one way system where I live means you have to merge across lanes all the time. It's the most frustrating thing when someone hangs in your blind spot and doesn't speed up or slow down so you can merge. Sometimes it's possible for the person who wants to merge to speed up or slow down but sometimes it's not.

It sounds like the bus was aggressive but this incident could have easily been avoided by OP slowing down and letting him in, it's just basic courtesy.

Show quote history

This was supposed to have quoted @Marmalade71, clearly I haven't woken up yet.

Because there is the issue that the OP is focused on, i.e. that the bus appeared to have a lack of awareness of other vehicles at the point of merging, and the issue that the OP seems oblivious to, i.e. to be completely unaware that there is a bus near parallel to you on a slip road until the point at which they merge is also driving without due care and attention.

If OP had've reworded her initial post, or frankly, lied, to make it sound as though she saw the bus from earlier on but still couldn't do anything for - insert whatever reason here - then the response would likely have been different. Instead, OP was expecting lots of sympathy for something they were partly to blame for, whilst simultaneously maintaining how much of a careful driver they are.

AlexandriasWindmill · 25/10/2023 07:53

If MN wanted to make this place better all they'd have to do is go through this thread and see all the gfs and arses and ban them in one swoop. This is Chat. It's not a fight club. And MN is supposed to be a place people can go for support. If you want to be a dick on the internet, there are lots of other places. There's a helluva lot of posters on here who should fuck off back to them and take their shitty driving practices and advice with them.

Teddleshon · 25/10/2023 08:09

@Marmalade71 Totally agree, some of the replies here really are batshit. As you have pointed out motorway slip roads vary hugely and on many the traffic joining is barely visible from the actual motorway. There is one near us on a sharp hill with a high bank where you can't see the approaching traffic at all from the motorway below.

This is precisely why the Highway Code states that when joining a motorway you must give priority to those already on it. Anything other than the premise that those already on the carriageway have priority would be insane.

rwalker · 25/10/2023 08:10

For the coach to pull in front of OP logically it must of been ahead of her on the slip rd

You can argue all day about the Highway Code common sense would tell to adjust your speed and let it in

a young lad was killed a few years ago in his way to work stationary on the slip rd i would never force someone to stop on slip when you have the option of letting them merge

some people seem to think being there version of right is the better option rather than risk causing an accident

PhantomUnicorn · 25/10/2023 08:11

FrankieStein403 · 24/10/2023 22:44

Gobsmacked at the number of people quoting the highway code.

Yes it sounds like the bus was not adhering to the code. The fact that so many posters are making a big thing of this means they don't do much driving on busy motorways.

HGVs, PSVs (and most drivers with go faster stripes or equivalent) on slip roads expect left Lane traffic to accommodate them. That's the way it is.

Anyone who doesn't allow for this will end up getting annoyed or frightened as per op.

The majority of junctions have an off ramp - the least stressful way of dealing with an on ramp is to use that as the flag to move out of the left Lane and move back after the on-ramp merging traffic has settled down - you always get people moving out of the left lane, either as they join or just after - so let them do this, chill.

There are some junctions, always well signposted, with only an on ramp. If you really can't get into the next Lane before the on ramp then adjust your speed to give plenty of space in front of you - that then gives you scope to match speed with the merging traffic.

(HGVs will usually be entering at a maximum -56mph, PSVs at upto 70mph/100kph)

If you want to carry on quoting the highway code - feel free - but if you don't change your driving behaviour you'll get the same thing happening again.

yes, and if they cause a crash, the bus/hgv will 100% be in the wrong and prosecuted for dangerous driving.

That is why people are quoting it, because while the OP could have anticipated a bit better, ultimately, the error was with the bus driver for not merging safely.