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Nearly in a serious car accident - hand hold please

719 replies

Usedandhurt · 24/10/2023 16:09

Im literally shaking. Just had a driver nearly kill me and my dc on the motorway. He/she must have not checked before they pulled onto the motorway from a slip road, I literally had to slam on the breaks to avoid crashing into them and thankfully the driver behind me and the one behind them etc etc were able to stop also. My dc would have been very badly hurt - it was a huge bus and I can only imagine the driver got distracted.

Im a nervous driver at the best of times and Im literally sick with nerves.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ChiefWiggumsBoy · 24/10/2023 22:08

The bus driver pulling onto the motorway being in the wrong doesn't negate the fact that OP acted poorly.

She didn't notice the bus till it was cutting her up and slammed on brakes on the motorway instead of keeping an eye out for other traffic and regulating her speed to allow the bus onto the motorway.

She can argue about it as much as she likes, but if there had been an accident, it wouldn't make anyone feel any better would it?

OP needs to do some advanced driving lessons or something. Her hazard perception seems poor.

AmandasFleckerl · 24/10/2023 22:08

Usedandhurt · 24/10/2023 17:25

Thanks all for your response. I have had a lovely chat with the police officer who called me back to say he cannot get through to the bus company as the switchboard is closed for the night but he will be dealing with this in the morning. I again asked if I had behaved in any way incorrectly and he assured me not. Strangely, like the Highway Code states, the onus is on the person joining to ensure that it is safe, not everyone else to get out of his/her way. For all your lovely posters who were kind and caring - thank you - I really appreciate your support. For the rest, I dread to think what your driving record is😂

What a waste of the officer’s time. You can complain to the company yourself. If the police spoke to every near miss they wouldn’t have time for any other jobs. Unless you have a dashcam it’s just your account. What do you expect from the police because there won’t be any prosecution.

SinnerBoy · 24/10/2023 22:20

ChiefWiggumsBoy · Today 22:08

She can argue about it as much as she likes, but if there had been an accident, it wouldn't make anyone feel any better would it?

I have to disagree slightly, it wouldn't have been an accident, as accidents are unforeseeable and unavoidable. This would have been a crash, caused by a bus driver determined to get onto the carriageway, come Hell or high water.

Yes, it's courteous to move right, if possible, but the OP has said that it wasn't possible.

As a professional driver, the bus driver should have anticipated that he might have to stop, or slow down and not just to have forced his way on.

Unfortunately, I see this quite often, as well as morons flying straight into the outside lane from the slip road.

123bumblebee · 24/10/2023 22:22

I can't believe how horrible people are being to you on here. She has just had a near accident involving her children, now is not the time to berate her about driving. Can any of us say we have never had a near miss on the road? Anyone who says they haven't is either lying or living in blissful ignorance at the chaos they cause on the roads that they have yet to notice.

I really do hope you are ok, OP. Your thread has really made me reflect on what I get out of sites like this and the value in my life of hearing opinions from strangers on the internet.

easylikeasundaymorn · 24/10/2023 22:31

Haffiana · 24/10/2023 22:03

The actual Highway Code for all those who clearly do not know:

Rule 271
You MUST NOT stop on any carriageway, emergency area, hard shoulder, slip road, central reservation or verge except in an emergency, or when told to do so by the police, traffic officers, an emergency sign or by red flashing light signals.
Do not stop on any part of a motorway to make or receive mobile telephone calls, except in an emergency.

If you take that as law what on earth do you do when traffic on the larger road is queuing or very slow moving for whatever reason and you have no choice but to stop while you merge on - just ram into the car in front of you on the slip road because 'HIGHWAY CODE told me I must never stop?'

Plus if you can't get onto the motorway because there's no gap then I would consider that to be an emergency- because otherwise if you barge your way in when there's nowhere for the cars already in the left hand lane to go then your chances of causing an accident are very high!

It's also not clear what 'stop' means in that context - is it 'come to a temporary pause with car in gear and ready to move as soon as the opportunity is available', or 'completely stationary, engine turned off.'

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 22:34

Topofthemountain · 24/10/2023 21:19

No, a vehicle joining from the slip road will move into the gap, then the other traffic adjust their distances as they go on.

The amount of rubbish in general on this thread is deeply worrying, and tbh I'm amazed I managed my 180 mile journey today unharmed.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Highway Code that people on the motorway leave gaps for joiners to merge.

Rule 260 does state "keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front". If you are pulling in in front of me, you are not leaving a safe distance in front of your vehicle because you are too close to the vehicle that was in front of me and is now in front of you.

You're the one who is talking rubbish.

I'm amazed I managed my 180 mile journey today unharmed

So am I, because if you cut in front of people as often as you indicate that you do, you are going to be in a prang one day.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 22:38

limitedperiodonly · 24/10/2023 21:34

People are not that great at driving which is why buses and walking and 20mph limits are the way forward.

No, you're not great at driving. Your contributions to the thread alone make the case for mandatory retesting every ten years.

SinnerBoy · 24/10/2023 22:41

123bumblebee· Today 22:22

^I can't believe how horrible people are being to you on here. She has just had a near accident involving her children, now is not the time to berate her about driving.

Yes, I agree and the bus driver was in the wrong. If you can anticipate and move right, it's courteous do so so, but not a requirement.

More pertinent is that you absolutely must not force your way onto the carriageway, you must give way where the lane ends.

I had a near identical incident a few weeks ago, I was doing the limit, looked over my left shoulder and saw a car quite far back up the ramp of the slip road - she was speeding and tried to force her way in. We had half the lane each - I was on my motorbike.

I mentioned this to a driving instructor and said about the give way line, I was corrected, in that it only marks the end of the slip road. That said, if you're on the slip road and can't get out safely, give way.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 22:41

rwalker · 24/10/2023 21:55

Yeah it more important to prove a point because your in the right and making them run off the road or force there way in
than take action to let them on the motorway

I don’t claim to be an authority but see this on a regular basis
each to there own but some people put being right above being safe

If you read Rule 259, you'd see that the bus is meant to give way. The OP was not forcing the bus to do anything.

The rules of the Highway Code are there to keep us safe. The bus driver chose to break them and caused the danger, not OP.

Another commenter who would fail a retest.

FrankieStein403 · 24/10/2023 22:44

Gobsmacked at the number of people quoting the highway code.

Yes it sounds like the bus was not adhering to the code. The fact that so many posters are making a big thing of this means they don't do much driving on busy motorways.

HGVs, PSVs (and most drivers with go faster stripes or equivalent) on slip roads expect left Lane traffic to accommodate them. That's the way it is.

Anyone who doesn't allow for this will end up getting annoyed or frightened as per op.

The majority of junctions have an off ramp - the least stressful way of dealing with an on ramp is to use that as the flag to move out of the left Lane and move back after the on-ramp merging traffic has settled down - you always get people moving out of the left lane, either as they join or just after - so let them do this, chill.

There are some junctions, always well signposted, with only an on ramp. If you really can't get into the next Lane before the on ramp then adjust your speed to give plenty of space in front of you - that then gives you scope to match speed with the merging traffic.

(HGVs will usually be entering at a maximum -56mph, PSVs at upto 70mph/100kph)

If you want to carry on quoting the highway code - feel free - but if you don't change your driving behaviour you'll get the same thing happening again.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 22:45

rwalker · 24/10/2023 22:02

also this is why hazard perception is part of your the test to avoid situations like this

No one is disparaging defensive driving.

Hazard perception and other defensive driving training doesn't negate the rules of the road. It doesn't become the OP's fault that the bus driver breached Rule 259.

123bumblebee · 24/10/2023 22:46

OP didn't ask for highway code advice, she asked for a hand hold.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 22:53

FrankieStein403 · 24/10/2023 22:44

Gobsmacked at the number of people quoting the highway code.

Yes it sounds like the bus was not adhering to the code. The fact that so many posters are making a big thing of this means they don't do much driving on busy motorways.

HGVs, PSVs (and most drivers with go faster stripes or equivalent) on slip roads expect left Lane traffic to accommodate them. That's the way it is.

Anyone who doesn't allow for this will end up getting annoyed or frightened as per op.

The majority of junctions have an off ramp - the least stressful way of dealing with an on ramp is to use that as the flag to move out of the left Lane and move back after the on-ramp merging traffic has settled down - you always get people moving out of the left lane, either as they join or just after - so let them do this, chill.

There are some junctions, always well signposted, with only an on ramp. If you really can't get into the next Lane before the on ramp then adjust your speed to give plenty of space in front of you - that then gives you scope to match speed with the merging traffic.

(HGVs will usually be entering at a maximum -56mph, PSVs at upto 70mph/100kph)

If you want to carry on quoting the highway code - feel free - but if you don't change your driving behaviour you'll get the same thing happening again.

Why are you "gobsmacked"? The Highway Code contains the ground rules for the use of the road. Perhaps if the bus driver had read it, the OP would not have been in a near-miss.

Letting people on is a nice courtesy that isn't always possible. OP said that the middle lane was not clear to move into, she couldn't have let the bus on even if she wanted to.

The drivers who don't obey the rules are the ones who should change their behaviour.

Thank you for illustrating the need for mandatory retests every ten years or so.

FoodieToo · 24/10/2023 22:57

Maybe it's different here in Ireland but when you are on the motorway you have to monitor the traffic in the slip lane. So before I even reach the slip lane I try to move out so that the merging traffic can feed in freely .

I really can't understand how someone cannot see a bus feeding in to the motorway as surely you would be travelling alongside it for a few seconds ?

In Ireland the OP would be at fault here as while she could not move out when the bus pulled in dramatically she should have seen and anticipated this happening well before it did ?

I know there are differences between our rules .
OP I hope you are feeling ok now .

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 23:00

123bumblebee · 24/10/2023 22:46

OP didn't ask for highway code advice, she asked for a hand hold.

How are the people who are endorsing the bus driver's behaviour as normal and berating her for not moving right into the chocka middle lane giving her a hand-hold? I'm quoting the HC at them because they ABVU in blaming her.

OP did the right thing by braking, protecting herself and her children, and she's well within reason to be shaken up by this near-miss. As some PP have suggested, defensive driving training would equip her to cope with and predict similar incidents in the future, this doesn't make it any less the bus driver's fault.

Doris86 · 24/10/2023 23:00

FoodieToo · 24/10/2023 22:57

Maybe it's different here in Ireland but when you are on the motorway you have to monitor the traffic in the slip lane. So before I even reach the slip lane I try to move out so that the merging traffic can feed in freely .

I really can't understand how someone cannot see a bus feeding in to the motorway as surely you would be travelling alongside it for a few seconds ?

In Ireland the OP would be at fault here as while she could not move out when the bus pulled in dramatically she should have seen and anticipated this happening well before it did ?

I know there are differences between our rules .
OP I hope you are feeling ok now .

Yes it is different in the UK, and the OP wasn’t at all at fault.

FoodieToo · 24/10/2023 23:03

Merging traffic doesn't stop in Ireland . It feeds in.

Doris86 · 24/10/2023 23:06

SinnerBoy · 24/10/2023 22:41

123bumblebee· Today 22:22

^I can't believe how horrible people are being to you on here. She has just had a near accident involving her children, now is not the time to berate her about driving.

Yes, I agree and the bus driver was in the wrong. If you can anticipate and move right, it's courteous do so so, but not a requirement.

More pertinent is that you absolutely must not force your way onto the carriageway, you must give way where the lane ends.

I had a near identical incident a few weeks ago, I was doing the limit, looked over my left shoulder and saw a car quite far back up the ramp of the slip road - she was speeding and tried to force her way in. We had half the lane each - I was on my motorbike.

I mentioned this to a driving instructor and said about the give way line, I was corrected, in that it only marks the end of the slip road. That said, if you're on the slip road and can't get out safely, give way.

I quite often see that. People who ignore obvious gaps where they could safely join the motorway, and instead speed further along the slip road and try to barge their way in, just for the sake of trying to get one or two cars further ahead.

LadyOfTheWagon · 24/10/2023 23:34

EDIT: This post became waaay longer than intended so you've been warned lol.

I've been driving trucks for almost a decade now so I'm going to give my honest take on the sliproad/general traffic merging element (which will likely get me flamed by some lol).

Even though this seems like a pretty obvious statement as most people realise that trucks are big, slow, and need a lot of space to merge, I think it's hard to really grasp the full extent of it until you've driven one yourself.

Even changing lanes is much harder than it looks as an EU truck can be up to 60ft in length and when looking in the comparatively small mirror it can be really hard to tell whether a car is actually behind you or alongside unless there's a fairly sizeable distance - this is only exacerbated by the dark and adverse weather conditions (rain, fog, etc).

It's clear that a lot of drivers aren't aware of this because almost daily I'll indicate to move over and the car behind me will hold back to let me go, giving what they assume is enough distance to make this obvious, but in reality I still can't tell whether I'm actually clear of them until they flash me in many cases.

If the car doesn't flash it's hard to tell whether they're letting you in or instead just driving alongside you but just maintaining their speed rather than easing off to let you in - they may not have even seen that you're indicating if they're just forward of your tail lights.

I've also had a fair few close calls where I've held back for a few seconds just to be sure they're letting me in, and they've then got impatient and floored it/undertaken me just as I've started moving over, causing me to have to swerve back into my original lane.

It's much easier now I have a rear facing camera but it's also staggering how it's so clear from the camera that they're holding back, yet often impossible to tell this when you compare via the mirrors by looking back and forth.

Regarding merging/changing lanes, you absolutely have to drive 'assertively' in some instances - not the same as cutting people up btw. The reality is that a lot of the time you're just not going to have the necessary space to move over and get up to speed without causing people to slow down, and you can't stay in the same lane forever.

People don't tend to leave say 6-8 car lengths between them and the vehicle in front, and if they did another car would use the opportunity to nip into that space from the inside lane. Also, it can take a whole mile to get back up to spees after slowing down and people often don't like to get stuck behind lorries so won't let you in.

So what you often have to do is make a calculated move, giving the cars behind you sufficient space to adjust their speed without braking excessively/dangerously. But make no mistake, you will absolutely have to make cars slow down in many cases. It's when truck drivers get this wrong that it becomes dangerous.

It's the same when we're pulling out of a side road. You will often see a lorry pulling out in the distance, and despite the fact it's a long way ahead you'll still end up slowing down as it won't have got up to speed by the time you reach it. It will have absolutely caused you to adjust your speed but it was so far away when it pulled out that you barely registered the fact that you instinctively slowed down as it was so gradual.

Now the issues arise when drivers mess this up. Truckers tend to work long hours (50-60 a week in general) so when you're 11 hours into your fourth shift of the week you may be a bit frazzled. They also tend to do irregular hours with last minute changes. For example, I was meant to load at 08:00 this morning at a client's depot 30 mins from my house but they messed up the schedule.

As the client's planner didn't have my number he emailed me at 17:30, but I didn't pick it up - the system was still showing the original loading time. I didn't even know my boss had given them my personal email tbh (I usually only check my gmail before bed as we never use email at work and always call each other via hands free). I had no reason to expect anything to change.

At 8pm they finally thought to email my boss but he didn't read it till 21:25 as he was out with his family. So I get a call at half nine telling me I'm actually loading at a depot 90 mins away at 07:30. So now I need to suddenly be up two hours earlier as I'll now need to fuel up before leaving and also have to open up the plant when collecting the truck as nobody will be there that early.

So suddenly I've got to be up in seven hours rather than nine and I'm only just leaving the gym and still need to get home, shower and get my stuff ready etc. I could say no in theory but this will cause big problems so not really an option - if I miss the concrete pour the end client can bill our client for loss of earnings for his whole team sitting around unable to work due to the materials not being delivered/contractual terms not fulfilled. Thousands of pounds on the client's head due to me wanting 2-3 more hours in bed. Shit but it's the reality.

So after already having had a crap night's sleep the night before and then smashing the gym thinking I was going to get 7-8 hours in bed, I had to get by on five hours sleep and do an 11.5 hour shift in an unfamiliar town today.

So sometimes drivers will be tired and this no doubt contributes to them misjudging the occasional manoeuvre, or even just the law of averages whereby they make a momentary mistake on one of the many 50 hour weeks they spend on the road. You can say they shouldn't as professional drivers but in reality they do.

Alternatively, the car driver behind them may just not be paying due attention (listening to music/radio, on hands free call, preoccupied with thoughts, etc) and doesn't notice early enough. Maybe instead of 'oh, that lorry up ahead's pulling over, I'd better slow down' it becomes 'tra la la la....oh shit shit shit!'.

These are just my thoughts as somebody who's spent tens of thousands of hours driving trucks and has trained dozens of new drivers.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 23:51

Truckers tend to work long hours (50-60 a week in general)

There's a large part of your problem. The 27 countries of the EU have the Working Time Directive 48 hour limit for a reason: namely that tired workers make mistakes. We should never have allowed employees to "choose" to sign opt-outs because we all know that not signing will be held against you even though on paper it shouldn't.

I understand everything you say about having a long heavy vehicle with poor visibility that doesn't accelerate quickly. I also understand that you risk jack-knifing and that some cargoes cause handling problems (e.g. liquid loads sploshing up and down in tankers). Anyone who has relatives (two uncles and an aunt) who drive wagons knows to give a HGV extra room on the road.

The OP was cut up by a bus though, and these lack the visibility and handling limitations that you describe, having windows in the body giving better visibility, being lighter, and not being articulated. The bus driver was just being an arse. He or she has priority when leaving a bus stop, but not when joining a motorway.

Passepartoute · 24/10/2023 23:52

SwishSwishBisch · 24/10/2023 19:00

Way to miss the point of Skye’s post. OP wouldn’t have had to do either if the bus driver had behaved correctly.

Way to miss the point of my post. OP wouldn't have had to do an emergency stop if she'd watched the traffic in the slip road and slowed down. The bus driver was in the wrong, but that doesn't mean that OP was driving sensibly.

Passepartoute · 24/10/2023 23:54

Lancasterel · 24/10/2023 19:01

No wonder the roads are so crazy these days!

If you’re on the motorway already, you have priority over those joining, and that is that! Well within your rights not to move over to let someone on - as the joinee, it’s your responsibility (and yours only) to join safely!

Presumably the bus is used to barging its way in and having people move out of the way for it. Not ok.

So if you refuse to slow down to let the bus in, how much consolation is it going to be to you as you lie in the mangled wreckage waiting for an ambulance that you were in the right?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 23:55

@SkyePyeThe Highway Code is quite clear that it's up to joining traffic to find a gap

Yes.

they should use the hard shoulder as an extension of the slip road if absolutely need be.

No. Show me the rule that says that.

From Rule 259:

"You should [...] not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder"

It's in black and white that you should not use the hard shoulder.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/10/2023 23:57

Passepartoute · 24/10/2023 23:54

So if you refuse to slow down to let the bus in, how much consolation is it going to be to you as you lie in the mangled wreckage waiting for an ambulance that you were in the right?

sigh.

Once more for the hard of thinking: if the bus driver drove according to the rules, OP wouldn't have had to slow down or brake. Stop blaming the OP.

SinnerBoy · 25/10/2023 00:00

Yes, the bus driver was certainly in the wrong. This is especially so, as the OP wasn't able to move right, because of the weight of traffic.