Labour, private schools VAT and universities

[BloodyHellKen]

Following on from the thread about Labour, private schools and VAT please could someone explain to me why we shouldn't be concerned that a Labour govt wouldn't remove tax exemption from universities also as they are also VAT exempt in the same way private schools are.

I'm not personally worried about VAT being added onto private school fees and I recognise arguments for and against but the possibility of VAT being added onto a university education does really concern me.

Anyone?

Also @wigywhoo I’m not ‘muddled in my thinking’ thanks very much. How rude.

@cardibach your posts speak for themselves actually, mean spirited to. I'll leave you to it!

*too, apologies.

How am I mean spirited, wanting equitable chances for everyone?

But standards are higher in the private sector perhaps? So it seems strange to try and get rid of it to ensure "equitable" standards are lower overall. It just seems mad.

Everyone has to go to school up to 16. The State provides free schools so that everyone can comply with that law and as a society, we all pay tax to fund the school places for everyone to act as a safety net. So everyone gets an education (varying standards obvs depending where you live so no real equity).But the law does not require us to use those state school places that our tax has bought for our children; we live in a country that does not force parents to use the State system..either by law or currently by penalising them financially if they chose not to take up the place (which would happen if Vat causes fees to rise..its not a subsidy btw). We can, if our circumstances allow, pay for a non State option. And currently, despite the fact these non State options do not have the benefit of using taxes to pay for its offering, seem to provide a better education than the safety-net option (from looking at the views above re "equitable standards"being higher and needing to be the same as the state option). That should mean that the state option needs to improve to compete. Rather than the private sector be wrecked. But that's just my view and I'm coming from the angle that I prefer as little state interference as is (reasonably) possible in education. And many people think that way. Its not just people trying to buy advantage. And should not be dismissed as elitist.

But standards are higher in the private sector perhaps? So it seems strange to try and get rid of it to ensure "equitable" standards are lower overall. It just seems mad
@Northbright why do you think the standards are higher?
It’s resources. Class sizes. Funding per student.
We should be aiming for that for everyone, not just those who have the money.
That’s where equity comes into it. You seem to think it’s just being an independent that magically raises the standards.
state education should emphatically not be a ‘safety net’. How ridiculous! It should be a quality education providing the best for everyone. Society needs that.

Well not really. That's not what I wrote. But I admire your strength of feeling on the subject. I just don't agree.

To clarify, I don't think wrecking private education and removing choice from parents who do not like State control over their kids education is going to improve the State sector in any way whatsoever.

@Northbright I’ve just edited my above comment.
live taken exception to you thinking state ed should be a ‘safety net’. It should not. That’s a ridiculous viewpoint. It exists to educate everyone to the best standards because society needs it. You clearly only want a good education for the well off. The plebs can have the basics.
On that we definitely disagree. I think it’s disgusting.

Oh. You’re a ‘state control’ type @Northbright
Suddenly your horrible viewpoint makes sense.
I’m out.

Disagree again. You misunderstand my meaning. I mean safety net in that it can be used by everyone. I'm making a valid point. Don't dismiss it out of hand by suggesting negative implications in what I say. You a teacher, and all.

I think you may just have proved my point.

@cardibach - you're doing yourself no favours!

Such glee at the thought of levelling down and closing schools. You sound nice.

1. no glee
2. no levelling down
3. If schools aren’t effective businesses who can pay their costs….

What point do you think I’ve proved?
The only point you seem to be making us that rich people deserve more than poor ones in terms of life chances with your horrible ‘safety net’ view and your tin foil ‘state control of education’ comments.
So go on - what point did you make that I proved?

‘Safety net’ clearly means the very basics. As benefits are a safety net. It’s a thing that stops you falling, not something that makes you fly.
As with some other posters you betray your real views with your choice of words.

@cardibach are you for real? Levelling down is exactly what you want. My sons school is a charity, it runs to educate not make profits, things are finely balanced. The Labour Party want to abolish private schools - it was in their 2019 manifesto. This is a sleight of hand way of achieving that objective.

I’d be more worried about the upcoming changes to student loans. Universities and education are basically fucked. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/student-finance-to-be-radically-transformed-from-2025

Hey! I thought you were "out"?

No. I don’t want to level down. That you think that betrays your views on what the state could or should provide. I want everyone to have the opportunities your son has. You don’t.
And yes, I know this policy won’t deliver that alone, but it’s part of a strategy.
Can you explain in what way your son’s school fits the usual understanding of charitable works?

Well it seemed I might have missed something critical in your posts so I was giving you a chance to explain it to me again. You clearly didn’t have a point I proved though, did you?

This would be as per the plans of the current government, yes?

My point that you are reading the worst into any comment that anyone makes that you disagree with. Apologies..I'm "out" now but not in a huff..just need to get off my phone. Best of luck in all!

They are. Yet fees are payable. You understand the hair's breadth between charging fees and charging vat on them?

I’m reading the worst into people?
I’ve been a shill, someone who is gleeful about school closures, someone who actively wants to disrupt children’s education…I could go on.
All just for believing that people shouldn’t be able to buy their children life chances ordinary people can’t get.