Labour, private schools VAT and universities

[BloodyHellKen]

Following on from the thread about Labour, private schools and VAT please could someone explain to me why we shouldn't be concerned that a Labour govt wouldn't remove tax exemption from universities also as they are also VAT exempt in the same way private schools are.

I'm not personally worried about VAT being added onto private school fees and I recognise arguments for and against but the possibility of VAT being added onto a university education does really concern me.

Anyone?

Your point about extra-current activities makes no sense. It’s more an argumen5 for Labour to reduce the costs, not increase them, using the same reasoning that would put VAT on school fees.

I don't think VAT should be charged on any type of education. Private or otherwise. Education and learning, was made exempt for all the right reasons, how can you justify putting it in some types but not others.

Holiday clubs are zero rated, horse riding, skiing lessons, surfing apparently! All can come under "ordinarily available in school"

Given that the Labour Party don’t like anyone having a perceived advantage over others, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that they will go after university fees and private healthcare if they’re elected. A lot of children can’t afford to go to university these days, so it’s now often only the more advantaged children who can access them. The same goes for private healthcare - only the wealthier people can afford it. It’s won’t be politically popular because it affects more people, but I can see it being a possibility in the future. University fees fall under the same VAT exemption as private schools at the moment, which they are already proposing to change.

I completely agree which is why I started this thread - to see if anyone else had the same concerns as I do. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.

@cardibach oh come on, yes I am speculating, as is the OP. The logic of their position could lead to this so people are right to be concerned. The party's u-turn on charitable status indicates they haven't really though through the implications- and that's partly because this is a spiteful measure not a logical one.

No. The logic doesn’t in any way lead anywhere near that, and you know it doesn’t. Meanwhile the Tories merrily carry on ruining the country and adversely affecting the lives of everyone in it while you cast around for absurd, illogical hypotheticals to suggest Labour would be worse because you haven’t got any actual reasons.

Ok @cardibach, whatever you say

Well you are deciding a policy is spiteful for no reason and making up crazy hypotheticals, so I think you are the one we should be reacting like that to, to be honest.

My concern is things like swimming and martial arts lessons. Both are private tuition, and therefore would seem to attract VAT under Labour's rules. But I regard swimming lessons as essential, and state schools seldom teach swimming any more.

I think this new law is going to be complicated to introduce, if they get the chance.

@cardibach I started this thread because I am concerned it could happen and I wanted to see what others thought and MN seemed like a good place to start.

I am very concerned Labour could charge VAT on a university education and yes that concern is speculation but it doesn't make it any less worrisome to me.

I have/am making no comparison with the Torys in this thread as it's not relevant to why I started this post. I am not saying 'I think Labour could do this so don't vote for them, vote for the Tory's instead'.

I am just saying if Labour are going to charge VAT on a private education then I am very worried they will do the same with universities which are also private education.

@cardibach what I have said is in response to the OP, they're my fears. I also think it's a spiteful measure by people who hate Eton and they're ilk and instead of supporting a more vigorous enforcement of public good to justify charitable status, they'd rather force schools to close and displace thousands of children from schools very different to those they think of. When my son (on a bursary) has to move schools half way through GCSE he will likely conclude its spiteful too.

My comment about defending Tories wasn’t to you though…
And ok, for the reasons I and others have given, it wouldn’t be a sensible policy or a logical extension of private school VAT. So good news. You don’t need to worry about it.

we shouldn't be concerned that a Labour govt wouldn't remove tax exemption from universities also as they are also VAT exempt in the same way private schools are.

I wasn't aware this was a possibility.

I heard Labour spokes person on education get asked on radio 4 about university funding - as there are current issues- and he pivoted to research and how important that all is- one source of funding and tried to go to Brexit - and then got brought back refused to say student fees wouldn't be increased or that they'd bail out universities in financial trouble.

Left me with impression they'd not be unhappy if the sector contracted - which as DH works in sector and kids are either at uni or not far off going wasn't reassuring. Not really seen much on sector since.

@cardibach has spoken, stand easy everyone. Why would they wish to persuade us otherwise!

It’s not spiteful, they don’t ‘hate’ anyone, that’s ridiculous. It’s charging VAT on a luxury item. They are more than well aware that most independent schools aren’t Elton ( not least because some Labour politicians/members went to independent schools or use them for their children). If the school your son goes to doesn’t increase his bursary or otherwise help him to stay for one year then I would conclude they are the spiteful ones. And I’ve worked in independent schools.

It was clear in 2019 that many in the Labour Party voted to abolish private schools altogether that there is a great deal of spite. And how, pray tell, can a school which is not for profit maintain the same bursary support if loads of pupils have to leave? Fool!

Why is it spite to believe honestly they aren’t a good thing? You’ve just decided anyone who disagrees with independents does so for spiteful reasons. It’s not the case.

@wigywhoo has spoken, stand easy everyone. Why would they wish to persuade us otherwise!

@cardibach Please enlighten me where you get the idea from that VAT is a tax on luxury items only.

With a few exemptions Vat is charged on everything including repairing your boiler, hot food, fridge/freezers and solar panels.

Funnily enough, there‘s no VAT on gold. Go figure.

The issue of VAT is not so much about VAT on school fees.
BUT private schools not being VAT exempt on things they buy, which they are at present as they are on the whole charities. I'm not sure if Universities get the same VAT exemption on purchases.
I do know that Sixth Form (and I think FE) colleges do have to pay VAT on purchases. Which makes the exemption for Private schools seem even more unfair.

I think if UK VAT rules can differentiate between a cake and a biscuit, then they also can be written to differentiate between private schools and universities.

@cardibach touché!

@MollyButton I don't see how that can be right.

If private schools were no longer charities, then they would be businesses, registered for VAT, and consequently they have to charge VAT on their fees. but can claim back any VAT they pay on purchases.

So this is very much about VAT on fees.

Ok. Most goods and services which aren’t essential (such as food to prepare yourself or children’s clothes- exempt because children grow out of stuff before it wears out I think). So the ingredients for a lasagne have no VAT while if you buy one someone has cooked for you in a restaurant you do pay it. So not luxuries exactly, but it’s a close shorthand. Gold is weird, I agree. Though gold jewellery does attract it, so…

So we will be seeing the Jaffa equivalent of private schools passing themselves off as universities.

Jaffa won!