Jimmy Savile

[Andontothenextproblem]

Just finished The Reckoning on BBC and despite watching countless documentaries, interviews and reading dozens of articles it’s really left me with more questions and intrigue (in a completely disgusted way) than ever.

What a disturbed an complex person he was but I find myself wanting to know why and how he managed to end up the way he was.

In particular his weird and verging on inappropriate views and relationship with his mother…

His dislike and cold view of children…was he a paedophile or someone who was just addicted to sex.

Was there any proof of him actually committing necrophilia or just a rumour..

Did he think his good deeds outweighed his bad or was everything he did done so with ulterior motives?

What was his relationship with the mayor had Ice cream man in Scarborough?

What did locals really think of him..

And how did he manage to worm his way to the top (royalty, politicians, head consultants) from near enough nothing…

How could someone be so narcissistic and a social path but such a loner and never have a wife/partner to mask…

My list of questions is absolutely endless…

Yes, he could turn on the charm when he needed/wanted, as psychopaths do. He was manipulative and had an answer for everything (I'm getting this from the programme so it may not be totally accurate).

I think he knew his mother wasn't very fond of him and he tried to negate that by being so over the top calling her The Duchess, and appearing to adore her so almost taking over the situation and making his apparent love for her, more noticeable than her disdain for him.

I live in Leeds and was a teenager in the 80's. I lived 10 mins away from Roundhay Park where he lived. My friends and I would go play tennis at the courts there. My dad used to always warn us about Savile as he would often hang around Canal Gardens. We were told NEVER to talk to him if he approached us.
My friend's father was a surgeon at the LGI and it was well known that Savile did strange things in the morgue and he was eventually banned from there.
I couldn't believe the outpourings when he died - it was well known by so many people what a horrible, corrupt and evil person he was.

Wow that really opened my eyes to the series, you are absolutely right about the BBC doing their best to erase all culpability

We've clearly not been watching the same programme. In episode 3, for one example, the woman working with Bill Cotton expressly raises concerns. Bill Cotton actually asked JS about the girl who killed herself. There are numerous incidences of people expressing concerns, but because he's so high profile and they are largely rumours no one puts two and two together. People generally don't want to believe awful things happen and that some people behave monstrously - it's human nature to want to see the best in people.

In that same episode the word "vulnerable" was used to describe a girl in a hospital. That language just wouldn't have been used back in 70s, 80s, 90s. I think it was used for the audience's benefit to spell it out. Mental illness was taboo. Just as speaking up about abuse was taboo because it was wrongly thought to reflect on the abused person and to be shameful for that person. Adults were revered in a way they aren't now, especially those in positions of power and authority. Much more is known now about how abusers operate and children are listened to and believed more. Safeguarding didn't exist, certainly not in the same way it does now. Still today there are hideous cases of abuse.

We know now that staff at Stoke Mandeville avoided JS and voiced concerns, but because of his fundraising activities they were dismissed/disbelieved/brushed aside. He truly was hiding in plain sight.

I grew up watching Jim'll Fix It. It's was every kid's dream to get a Fix It. I do remember thinking Savile was odd and had no empathy with the children who were on the show. The other thing about JFI is that people believed that JS was the one arranging the fix it's, not the production team. Thus adding to JS's public persona.

I remember clearly watchingJFI as a child and mum asking why I watched it, and telling me her and dad couldn’t stand that man (Savile) and me feeling sad, as I thought he made dreams come true even if he was a bit odd to look at.

given that he was a massive fund raiser at the time, that would be an odd thing for mum to say who epitomises the be kind stance and is extremely charitable and good.

I hadn't realised that about his brother @FictionalCharacter. Thanks for the information. In fact, I hadn't really known anything about Savile's family, beyond his references to the Duchess, until The Reckoning.

I think it's more than just people not believing girls and women (who were often very vulnerable) and think the drama showed that sometimes they were believed. So many examples, including here, of how lots of people knew he could not be trusted or you should never be alone with him.

But the people that believed them never felt they had the power or bravery or influence to tackle Saville. I guess each one was fearful of trying to take him on, when he had powerful friends.

I agree that the attitudes to women at the time played a bit role also. To continually sexually assault women was not seen as serious enough to switch off the cash cow of entertainment.

The same is STILL going on in the music industry. Women still seen as expendable so long as the powerful stars or producers keep generating the cash.

My mum’s friend was one of the children taken for ‘rides’ in his Roller. She won’t talk about it.

I haven’t watched this. But I can tell you that he was disliked intensely in Scarborough. He was feared though, and had influence, particularly with friends high up in West Yorkshire Police and the BBC. He also befriended and paid some pretty unsavory low life’s, who were known locally as dangerous. You didn’t cross Savile or speak badly of him either.

Reporting him was at best useless and at worst could get you in trouble. And yes unfortunately that didn’t stop young girls throwing themselves at him. CSA wasn’t discussed openly by parents and schools back in the ‘70’s and kids just didn’t realise until it was too late. To local youngsters he was just a big celebrity. I have family photos taken at events, with him cuddling up to relatives’ kids. He would just barge in and grab them for photos. Makes me sick to think back.

I do wonder if he was part of a paedophile ring to be honest. All his associates and friends in high places .. it’s a bit suspicious. Sexual abuse did go on in children’s homes in the eighties even. I know from having worked in a related area.

If somebody at the BBC like Terry Wigan said to keep him away from Children in Need what did he know? But what could he do? The dots didn't add up I guess rumours aren't the same as evidence.

But I have always wondered if the lady who fronted crime watch in 1999 had been shot because of looking at this I know her name but I don't think you are allowed to make accusations.

A few police forces also didn't join the dots with each other when people complained and also chose to do nothing.
Being invited to Chequers for Christmas Day he certainly had friends in high places.
The charity work probably stopped people challenging his other behaviour from the 80s onwards.

I feel this drama really doesn't show the reality enough.

I think it’s more than just a ring. I think people like Savile would have quickly found out which high-ups were on his wavelength. Either because they had the same sexual proclivities, or they just didn’t give a shit as long as he brought them money, a career boost, celebrity or royal contacts etc.

Those kinds of people are still operating in the sane way now. Paedophiles and psychopaths spend years cultivating positions of power and access to vulnerable people.

Brand's under investigation, Epstein died in prison, Weinstein is in prison. They were powerful and famous but I don't think they ultimately got away with it. It took a while but eventually it caught up with them.

Both Weinstein and Epstein got away with it for years though..and a lot of women in Hollywood had their careers ruined because they wouldn't comply.
And we still don't know who was in Ghislaine Maxwell's little black book do we?
Neither Russell Brand or Dan Wooten have been arrested yet.

Weinstein and Epstein didn't get away with it though, it got them in the end. Brand is being investigated and presumably if evidence is found he will be dealt with appropriately.

I have a lot of respect for the women who wouldn't comply, I won't comment on the women who went along with it.

How did he generate a close to 8 million pound fortune? Film stars have less.

My sister was on Jim'll Fix It. Nothing out of the ordinary happened, we went as a family. Feels like she was very lucky.

She still has her medal but it hasn't seen the light of day since he died.

beguilingeyes why would Dan Wootton be arrested?

Something off about the Scottish photographer and the man who went on the ship with him. Where they real characters?

It's strange as the Louis Theroux documentary showed him in a different light. At times Intriguing, interesting and funny. You can see how people got sucked in by him.

@Funkyslippers https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dan-wootton-mail-online-gb-news-allegations-b2387696.html

beguilingeyes wow. I never liked the guy but didn't realise he could be guilty of anything more than childish sniggering at Laurence Fox

Louis Theroux made a further documentary after Savile died, admitting he'd completely misread JS, and examining the obvious clues he'd failed to spot when he was making the initial programme.

He was on the air a LOT for a good many years and will have hardly spent anything. Sleeping in a camper van and eating cold baked beans instead of posh hotels and fancy restaurants when he was away from home, wearing tracksuits, no family to support beyond buying the flat for his mum (and despite everything he made of it being luxury, it’s Scarborough not the Riviera).
I’m not saying he didn’t also make money by dodgy means- it would have been in character- but it’s perfectly plausible his work netted him that much.

I watched The Reckoning as I clearly remember the Savile years top of the pops Jim 'll fix it.
My late df took us the see Jim 'll fix it as he did work for the Bbc and got tickets.We thought it was great.
Df said when Savile died there were always rumours at the beeb about him.
I thought Steve cougan was spot on and never heard about the necrophilia.
Jesus Christ those poor children and now dead bodies.Most of us don't want to see one.
How on earth can anyone sink so low .
I don't understand how anyone so sick became so popular.
Why didn't he pay for sex .🤮🤮🤮

I'm not sure its changed all that much. Somewhat, perhaps. It's still the case that there is a great deal of sexual abuse.

Not every teacher or whoever who is a perpetrator is caught, and when people are there is a proof issue.

My dd worked locally for a while, as an older teen (16 plus) and some of her employers were awful. Quite a few tried it on.

I know of a situation where an organisation senior manager (50 plus) was trying to invite himself to dinner with wine at the home of a 16 year old apprentice. She went in tears to the deputy manager and HR, and was not believed. Within the last decade.

I wonder why it's so difficult to catch perpetrators that most get away with it.

Also those crafty bastards are even more careful who they pick these days. Still the poor and the vulnerable, very often, or those who have something to lose by complaining.

I do think it's a very interesting question why Savile was like he was. We need to understand the whole issue better, or we'll never get past it.