Labour want teachers to supervise kids brushing their teeth ARGH.

[noblegiraffe]

People can't get dentists for their children.

Children's teeth are one of the top reasons for child hospital admission, with 9 out of 10 extractions in 0-5 year olds being due to preventable decay.

This is clearly an area that needs addressing urgently.

BUT schools are in crisis, if they're not literally falling apart they are running out of teachers or unable to hire teaching assistants. Primary schools are increasingly unable to meet the needs of children with SEN and disabilities, where numbers are going through the roof. Where is the time to supervise teeth-brushing going to come from? Who has the capacity to implement this? It seems that Labour are willing to accept that there is a crisis in dentistry, but pushing extra workload onto schools to solve it is just failing to recognise the crisis in schools in terms of ability to take on extra responsibilities.

There is an increasing trend to see a problem in society and expect schools to do something about it. There's also an increasing trend whereby underfunded support services for children reduce the offer of those services, and schools are just expected to pick up the slack. An example would be NHS Southwest deciding to stop accepting referrals for autism diagnosis except in cases of extreme need, saying that schools could just deal with these children not having a diagnosis. CAMHS collapsing under the weight of mental health issues in children was met with the policy that schools should have a member of staff given a bit of training to try to replace expert services. Special schools are saying that some children are too needy for their specialist setting, so those children with extreme needs are left in mainstream schools who are just expected to get on with it.

Why is Labour's go-to that teachers should supervise teeth brushing and not that parents should supervise teeth brushing and be supported in this?

What do people want the purpose of schools to be? If it is to educate children, then the rest of this stuff needs to be farmed elsewhere.

If it is to be that schools should be a one-stop-shop for all issues relating to children, then we need funding, staffing and infrastructure that acknowledges this new role.

This irritates me so much

Selective spending

Could Easily get books second hand

Do you work in a school?

Yes why ?

My advice is to keep brushing your children’s teeth until the age of 10. It’s not a matter of independence. It’s a matter of health and ensuring they are looked after correctly - particularly when child dental care is in crisis.

An article from the lovely Sam Freedman emphasising the general point of this thread https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/teaching-quality-efforts-crushed-rising-poverty

"Poverty has got a lot worse, and a lot of the services that used to support schools with those aspects of supporting a child’s life have lost funding, disappeared or are overwhelmed in the case of Camhs (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services).”
“And, of course, it hits schools in the poorest parts of the country the hardest, and so all the problems they face are made worse by poverty.”
As a result, Mr Freedman said, efforts to improve teaching quality, such as with National Professional Qualifications and the Early Career Framework, are being undermined.
“Any academic improvement or gain in teaching quality is being crushed because people don’t get to focus on the curriculum. They’re too busy focusing on those wider social issues,” he said."

His suggestion is to take a cross-department approach to fixing these problems rather than just lumbering schools with them.

Again, this is not a labour issue, it's because of the situation the current government are forcing our school staff to work under, that brushing children's teeth is evoking such a reaction in some school staff.

This will be a Labour issue if they, as they have so far demonstrated, fail to grasp the extent of the crisis in schools and instead see schools as the solution to crises elsewhere.

My point is that teachers are regulated professionals. Parents are not. Some parents do an amazing job of raising their children, some do a terrible job and some cant be bothered to even attempt the job in the first place. This is where society should be able to rely on our schools to level things out and provide a fair, even base for all of our children.

Don't need a sink for them to brush their teeth. It can be done at their desks, spit into a cup, wipe mouth with a bit of tissue, done. All done together.

Poor teachers

All in to one cup? What happens to the cup?

30 separate cups of minty spit or one communal class cup with 30 lots of shared minty spit?

That reminds me of some of the suggestions during the heatwave last summers-someone on here suggested children could just take their shoes and socks off, fill their tray with water and sit with their feet in the tray under their desks all day.

This will be a Labour issue if they, as they have so far demonstrated, fail to grasp the extent of the crisis in schools and instead see schools as the solution to crises elsewhere

if it gets passed and if they get in, its a small issue in the grand scheme of things that need sorting at the hands of the Tories. It will be YR that it will be aimed at. They need to start by reversing all the cuts that have been made to other services which are making this such a big issue for some. Again, I am not disagreeing (as I have repeated) that school staff are over stretched, over worked and underfunded and they are being asked more of them that should be required by what is suppose to be an education body, all I am saying (again) is that helping with YR teeth brushing, isn't the hill I would die on. I can think of many more things now that disgrace me, than wanting to help kids have better teeth hygiene, take away other bits of Shiite that get added on that waste actual teaching time and inspiring lesson planning.

The level of underfunding is really upsetting now. It is extremely clear that schools do not have enough money to deal with rising SEN need and that those children are suffering as are the rest of the class and the teaching staff. Then when you look at the other areas where budgets are being trimmed to balance the books, you end up with buildings in a state of disrepair, schools that can’t afford to buy basic things like white board pens etc. I can see why teachers would role their eyes and think ‘just another little thing’ to add when they’re already stretched.

Then you should know how absolutely jam packed timetables are. Most parents when they come in can't believe the pace. We don't have time to spare for anything additional. We can't fit in all the things we already need to do.

Very funny. You've met 4 and 5 year olds before, yes?

Then you should know how absolutely jam packed timetables are. Most parents when they come in can't believe the pace. We don't have time to spare for anything additional. We can't fit in all the things we already need to do

Yes, I do understand that, as I have previously stated.

You stayed you felt it was an important issue worth adding. What should we not do?

Again, I am not disagreeing (as I have repeated) that school staff are over stretched, over worked and underfunded and they are being asked more of them that should be required by what is suppose to be an education body, all I am saying (again) is that helping with YR teeth brushing, isn't the hill I would die on.

So what will the hill that you are prepared to die on be? When will it come? How many more teachers will leave before you're prepared to say 'STOP GIVING US MORE WORK TO DO'?

As I said in my OP, there is a genuine problem with dentistry, this policy would probably help. I'm not saying it wouldn't.

But the fact that a political party thinks that it is even remotely appropriate to seriously float this policy right now is just batshit.

There won't be a great reset when Labour get in (and I'm saying 'when' because you'd have to be an idiot to think the Tories are in with any chance), schools won't suddenly be functioning and fully staffed. They'll have had another year of Tory shit to contend with (and less funding than expected, looking at the news). Labour have already said they're not prepared to spend to rescue the situation. They weren't even prepared to commit to the recent 6.5% pay increase. Floating this policy 'because NHS dentistry is in trouble' shows that they either don't know that schools are in just as dire straits, or that they don't care.

And if you're going to say 'oh no, dentistry is really bad, not like schools', remember there are currently hundreds of schools closed and kids learning in tents (hello winter) or online (hello failed experiment of lockdown). And 'people can't get a dentist' can be countered with 'kids can't get a maths or computing teacher', or 'SEN kids can't get anything remotely near the support they need or are even legally entitled to'.

We have been doing this for ages. We all had the opinion that this is ridiculous as it's another thing that's not our responsibility to do this. Our head passed this out to our lunchtime staff, which im not sure they were wholeheartedly happy with to start with but they soon got into a routine and it was just for the reception aged children. Some parents have commented how they struggled at home to get them to do it, but they dont have that battle now. Not ideal for us, but great news for the kids themselves.

Our MDAs are also our TAs in class. They would need to take time from English and maths to prepare and clean up from this or leave 1:1 children alone in lessons

Its very common for TAs to also be MDAs, they normally midday then go off on their lunch (what they get of their 30mins) are all your MDAs also TAs?
When do your TAs take their lunch if its not when the kids are?

You stayed you felt it was an important issue worth adding. What should we not do?
Give me your list and costings and i will choose.

You're the one thinking it's important enough to introduce...

I'd rather teach phonics and maths.

All of our TAs are MDAs as no one else wants to do the job.

They take their lunch at 1-1.30, leaving us hugely short in that time.

We make do, but giving them another job to do that takes them away from directly impacting learning wouldn't work for me, unless of course it's well funded and we use extra staff rather than our current staff.

So what will the hill that you are prepared to die on be? When will it come? How many more teachers will leave before you're prepared to say 'STOP GIVING US MORE WORK TO DO'?

It has come ! We are already over that hill, And it was well before trying to help 5 year old teeth cleaner. AGAIN !! I am disgraced by how schools are being run. I would be more annoyed about the paperwork that is being forced upon teaching staff that is meaning they can't actually spend time preparing to create lesson plans that they want or that we are scrapping around for the basics because we absolutely are bottom of the pile for funding because we always make it work and scrape by.
I am disgusted that we do not have enough SEN schools for children who require them, so they are forced into mainstream schools where they struggle further and no one's needs are met.
I am disgusted that the teachers we do have are so stressed and over worked that the good long termers are leaving
I am disgusted at the amount of school staff that are off long term sick due to the stress of the job and thr outside hours required.
I am disgusted at the amount of box ticking exercises that go on when all we want to do it teach and inspire the kids.
I am disgusted that we simply don't have the budget to staff the schools properly, thus leading to the stress of the job..
The list goes on....and on.
At least this addition actually helps someone, and makes a tiny bit of sense unlike every other decision being made about education at the moment.

This is what angers me, is what is happening now that angers me. And the people allowing that to happen now need to be held to account now.
We have already shouted STOP GIVING US MORE WORK, loudly, some did in the strike action, but surprise surprise, no one listened,

But the fact that a political party thinks that it is even remotely appropriate to seriously float this policy right now is just batshit

But that's exactly what it is, floating an idea that is already established in many areas, it's not a new idea, it's already happening and expected in many areas, but yes this is by choice not mandated by the government.

There won't be a great reset when Labour get in (and I'm saying 'when' because you'd have to be an idiot to think the Tories are in with any chance), schools won't suddenly be functioning and fully staffed. They'll have had another year of Tory shit to contend with (and less funding than expected, looking at the news). Labour have already said they're not prepared to spend to rescue the situation. They weren't even prepared to commit to the recent 6.5% pay increase. Floating this policy 'because NHS dentistry is in trouble' shows that they either don't know that schools are in just as dire straits, or that they don't care

Of course there will be no magic wand to rectify the years of neglect and underfunding, but I think It depends what they are calling spend to rescue the situation. The situation we are in involves so many areas that we are picking up the slack from, so funding education directly more is a direct benefit, and funding other areas more will have a indirect benefit to schools were we won't need to try to be all thing to the kids and move back to more of an education body.

And if you're going to say 'oh no, dentistry is really bad, not like schools', remember there are currently hundreds of schools closed and kids learning in tents (hello winter) or online (hello failed experiment of lockdown). And 'people can't get a dentist' can be countered with 'kids can't get a maths or computing teacher', or 'SEN kids can't get anything remotely near the support they need or are even legally entitled to'

No, I wasn't going to say that, never even crossed my mind.

Of course there will be no magic wand to rectify the years of neglect and underfunding, but I think It depends what they are calling spend to rescue the situation. The situation we are in involves so many areas that we are picking up the slack from, so funding education directly more is a direct benefit, and funding other areas more will have a indirect benefit to schools were we won't need to try to be all thing to the kids and move back to more of an education body.

But that's exactly the point here. They're not proposing funding other services to help schools, they are doing exactly the same as the Tories and putting more on schools in order to prop up other failing services.

But that's exactly the point here. They're not proposing funding other services to help schools, they are doing exactly the same as the Tories and putting more on schools in order to prop up other failing services.

But one of their policies is about reforming childcare and education systems.