Can we talk about the aging population?

[Kendodd]

Anyone know much?
I don't see much serious discussion in politics about this and the challenges it will create. Policy just seems to be more of the same ignoring the fact society will fundamentally change and lots of the numbers just won't add up anymore (elder care, healthcare etc) Having said that I think we are quite well placed in the UK to cope being open to immigration from higher birthrate countries. Plus we will have a heads up watching how low birthrate and low immigration countries in Asia cope and what they do right or wrong.

Overall, I think, lower numbers of people are good for the planet, if predictions are even correct, people across the world might decide to just start birthing their own care workers though and upend the current trajectory. Anyway I don't think we should continue to ignore it's challenges.

The attitudes to to retirement need to change possibly with the end of the state pension so retirement is funded by investments meaning the elderly are still paying tax to fund themselves.

We have no intention of living past the point we can care for ourselves (happy to pay cleaner + gardener) and have a plan in place.

The housing crisis can be solved in so many different ways, we have a 5 bedroom house for 3 of us (1 DS medically can't have more) we will likely stay in it forever. If they built retirement villages with nice apartments with facilities such as pools and bars with the ability to pay for cleaning, laundry etc we would then downsize but buying a smaller house likely means moving onto an estate we don't want to live on.

I do wonder if we are at the point we need compulsory work for benefits

@Countrydiary for care in the home?

Yeah let's just cull all the old people and bring in immigrants 🙄

So care provided by care workers, care homes etc you have to pay yourself until you get down to 23k of savings/assets. Unless you qualify for the very narrow criteria for NHS continuing care.

Ok - I get withholding antibiotics in some cases of slow deaths from dementia. My mum’s Alzheimer’s life 12 years after diagnosis is one with much fearfulness and excruciating anxiety.

But you would have the sick elderly die in pain? It’s the painkillers which often ease people more gently from mental and physical agony in the last stages of life to a quiet end. I would have hated my dad to have died without morphine.

Sorry, that was in response to this post.

Also, I think the decline in real funding for the health service will lead to a lowering of the average age of death significantly.

Perhaps communities could be set up for those who are ‘young’ old to care for those who are older and maybe even the under-fives of working parents. We could call them ‘families’.

Taxation will have to be absolutely through the roof. It will have a massive impact on all of us.

China also has an enormous problem (facing them sooner rather than later due to the one child policy). I actually heard a talk recently about how Chiba is not a country we need to be concerned about from an environmental perspective since they will soon be facing massive economic crisis due to their population demographic.

@Countrydiary I'm not talking about going into a care home, plenty of people don't. And care in the home means testing doesn't include house value does it?

One of the biggest challenges is the demographic change. ATM families by which we really mean adult children mainly daughters /DIL do a vast amount to support their parents/PIL. This is usually things like arranging care, helping with low level practical stuff eg getting shopping, small diy jobs, helping them manage tech when everything has gone on line. All of this saves the government billions & keeps older ppl at home/happier/independent fjr longer

However Around 20% of people over 50 now don’t have children & families are much smaller so not so many nieces/nephews either. Government hasn’t even begun to talk about this yet and the impact it will have

also re robotics - evidence so far from Japan is that actually it’s not a game changer in anyway. Looking after the robots, keeping them functioning is time consuming but more importantly once the novelty. Wears off older ppl don’t want them, they want an actual human caring for them

the vast majority of older ppl never go into a care home. Out of a population of about 11 million over 65, about 500,000 are in a cate home. That’s why relentless government focus on not selling home to pay for care is so pointless. It really doesn’t help the vast numbers of older ppl who will be cared for at home

Totally agree. They would rather tell people to have more children than tell pensioners that they will have tobscrsp the Triple lock because there are too many of them, or tell them that theur houses will have to be sold to pay for their own care. If people have more children we are just kicking the can down the road on this. And it will be made worse by AI when some of these people want have jobs. We need to look urgently at how to manage the ageing population, which is a one or two generation problem before global populations start to drop and maybe we level the population if young to old. Creating another boomer generation that cannot be supported is not the answer.

China also has an enormous problem (facing them sooner rather than later due to the one child policy). I actually heard a talk recently about how Chiba is not a country we need to be concerned about from an environmental perspective since they will soon be facing massive economic crisis due to their population demographic.

yep, it's predicted in 80 yrs time the over 65s will be 41% of the population. They do now have a 3 child policy but it's too late & educated women have less dc anyway.

There needs to be incentives and encouragement to look after our elderly relatives as they age.

I used to wonder what that would look like but watched my Moroccan MIL look after her mum.

Everyone in the family takes turns, she lives a few months with one member then another. Then in the summer she would go back to Morocco and everyone would visit. Then after a few year she died and that was it. Obviously it won't be easy for everyone to replicate that but at least I saw how its done in another culture.

In the UK, there should be a carers style allowance or a tax credit styled allowance, similar to what we have for people with children, that will top up your wages if you have to go part-time due to looking after elderly members of your family. The money that the government spend on carers and care homes atm is a lot more than what would be given, so would be a saving.

There could be grants to build extentions for granny annexes or council tax breaks. Day centres with pick up and drop off services like childcare.

Putting more emphasis on caring as a career so that people want to do it, more funding, higher wages and a chance to progress and get a degree whilst working.

People who choose caring as a career could also be eligible for council housing, prescription discounts, higher pensions, more holidays. Stuff that would make you want to stay when the work gets tough.

People applying to Uni could get extra UCAS credits for doing a two week caring placement under supervision.

What a horrible, ageist thing to say?

Apart fom the ageism of your statement, you do know there are Boomers who are still working and in their 50s, the same as the older Gen X's?

There needs to be incentives and encouragement to look after our elderly relatives as they age.

How would it be funded though? Younger people have to work longer for one & not everyone has a family.

In the UK, there should be a carers style allowance or a tax credit styled allowance, similar to what we have for people with children, that will top up your wages if you have to go part-time due to looking after elderly members of your family.

Tax credits are peanuts, if I drop down to p/t is the gov going to give me 20 or 30k? unlikely

Apart fom the ageism of your statement, you do know there are Boomers who are still working and in their 50s, the same as the older Gen X's?

Aren't the youngest "boomers" 59?

Yes I know, although for a lot of conditions care at home is a precursor to needing a care home. It isn’t based on value of house, but savings, this is 23k threshold. This is rising to 100k in 2025.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/when-the-council-might-pay-for-your-care/

Also care in the home if you have any sort of complex need can get very expensive very quickly.

The whole system is a mess.

Everyone in the family takes turns, she lives a few months with one member then another. Then in the summer she would go back to Morocco and everyone would visit. Then after a few year she died and that was it. Obviously it won't be easy for everyone to replicate that but at least I saw how its done in another culture.

Yes, this would be good. Perhaps some Gov policy encouraging family members to share the care. Did both of the carers work or did it fall on the female to make time? Did they have more siblings to share?

Simple solution: young people should vote.

@sleepyscientist , survival for the wealthy only?

Many of us with 2 full time working adults can't afford that lifestyle while working, never mind in retirement. That is totally unrealistic.

No, 58. 31st December 1964 is cut off date. If you were born 1st Jan 1965 you are Gen X.

Maybe. However, there are plenty of us working well into our 60s.
Protected my arse.

I do think we need to start thinking about our homes more. Likelihood is we will have more people in them for longer- both the younger generation who can’t afford to leave and the older generation who are around for much much longer and need care. At the moment getting planning for an annexe is really hard and then there are issues with double council tax etc.

Think we need to make people solely liable for their care costs.

Unfortunately those that rent will never pay their share