Ms vs Mrs ?

[happyfishcoco]

"Ms. is a general title that does not indicate marital status but is still feminine.
Mrs. is a traditional title used for a married woman."

I think I can address any woman as 'Ms.'
For example, if Mary Nelson is married to Peter Clark, she is 'Mrs. Clark,' but I can also call her 'Ms. Clark.'
However, my DH thinks this is incorrect because 'Clark' is the surname of Mary's husband, and we should not refer to her as 'Ms. Clark.'
So, what do you think? Who is correct?"

@MustBeNapTime - I didn’t say your approach was wrong - just alien to me. My DM,DMil, DSis and DSil didn’t change their surname when they got married so it’s unusual to me when people do. My nephew got married last year - first in the next generation - and his wife has also kept her surname. I imagine DD will do the same - also saves having a family name and professional name.

I use Ms [husband's surname].

For others, I will follow their lead, but if I don't know, I will use 'Ms' as the neutral option.

To add, I took my husband's surname because I was relentlessly bullied at school over my maiden name, so was glad of a chance to change it without hurting my father's feelings (my unmarried sister tried to change hers and it caused a huge row!)

I hate the title Mrs

It makes me shiver

"The missus"

I think Ms is safest until you know different for sure.

I frequently get addressed as Mrs Husband'sSurname and it's totally inapplicable to me, I have never been that person. It irks me that people don't make an effort to find out what I am called.

I always thought "Ms" meant divorcee?

60 years ago maybe!

I go by Miss. I think always will

She could be Mrs Nelson. Does your husband not realise that we can call ourselves what we like?

It's not uncommon for 'Miss' [maiden name] to be used professionally by a married woman - for example, consultants (medical) use this.

I haven’t read the full thread so apologies if it’s been mentioned, but it could easily be “Dr and Mr”. 😂 You can’t make assumptions about titles.

I appreciate you would have mentioned if that was the case here OP, I’m just musing.

Ms is much more used by both married and single women. I don’t know anyone who uses Mrs, apart from my elderly mum. Ms is the neutral option.

Mary can use any title she wants with the surname she has chosen to use. Your DH is wrong, there is absolutely no law that you must use Mrs when married, or when you have taken DH's name.

When was the last time a boy was actually addressed as Master?

since it has completely fallen to disuse, calling a female of any age Miss unless she specifically requests it herself is offensive. There should not be an age based title in use for girls when there is no longer one in use for boys.

I was listed as Mrs by a pharmacy recently. I'm not and never have been married, my title has been Ms for longer than most of these people have been alive. 🙄

It's entirely up to the woman how she styles her title.

I've always thought it was a great pity that Mrs became the norm for married women when it used to be the name for an adult woman.

When was that, @echt?

Always been Ms whether single, married or if in the future, divorced.

I certainly don't understand why women who prefer to be called Mrs. get annoyed about being called Ms. when the other person doesn't know their preference. It is an obvious default and doesn't mean that the person thinks you're a spinster, divorced, not part of your husband or any other imagined disaster...

If a woman changes her surname when she gets married, I assume she prefers to be called Mrs. If she doesn’t, I assume she prefers to be called Ms. If I don’t know someone’s marital status, I say Ms.

I live in Germany. It used to be Fraulein for Miss and Frau for Mrs. Using Fraulein is now frowned upon and all adult women are Frau no matter what their age or marital status is and it is a sign of respect to use it. Especially with people you don’t know - even with new neighbours you start off with surnames rather than first names and sometimes in a work situation when you are talking with someone for the first time, especially if they are older.
So in English I tend to use Mrs even though I’m no longer married.
However, in France, not far away they still use Madamoiselle and Madam. But that tends to be an age thing rather than marital status. You know when a waiter is trying to get a good tip when he calls you Madamoiselle when you’re in your late 40s.
I think titles are nice for politeness. I don’t think everyone I come across in life should call me by my first name.
There are some people that I wish would be less formal though and those that call me Mizz Surname tend to annoy me (someone I’ve worked with for 15 years will not call me by my first name). I wouldn’t object if it was written Ms.
My SIL in the UK uses her maiden name professionally with the title Dr. If I send something just to her I use that. If I’m sending something to the whole family I use Mr and Mrs X and family.
For the hypothetical question, either could be used if she has taken her husband’s surname but I would presume normally if a woman uses her husband’s name she would also use Mrs.

You know when a waiter is trying to get a good tip when he calls you Madamoiselle when you’re in your late 40s.

Heh - I'd have been more irritated than flattered by being called Mademoiselle at that age!

Or he uses her name.

Or they both adopted a new name (which she has confirmed is the case)

It doesn’t. It never has.

That a title that was introduced precisely to free women from having their marital status as part of their name (unlike men) then becomes associated with an even more intrusive detail of a woman’s marital status shows just how deep sexism runs.

If you want to use the 'proper' old fashioned convention Mary's formal title and name are Mrs P Clark.

If she divorces she becomes Mrs M Clark.

If she is widowed she becomes Mrs P Clark (Deceased).

But then were are no longer Edwardians so what she uses is up to her.

"I thought Ms meant divorcee" is this thread's "Partner means business partner to me." You didn't and it doesn't. It's just a feeble attempt to maintain the fiction that for a woman being married is an achievement and using "Mrs" confers status.