Ms vs Mrs ?

[happyfishcoco]

"Ms. is a general title that does not indicate marital status but is still feminine.
Mrs. is a traditional title used for a married woman."

I think I can address any woman as 'Ms.'
For example, if Mary Nelson is married to Peter Clark, she is 'Mrs. Clark,' but I can also call her 'Ms. Clark.'
However, my DH thinks this is incorrect because 'Clark' is the surname of Mary's husband, and we should not refer to her as 'Ms. Clark.'
So, what do you think? Who is correct?"

This.

This and only this.

I've been using Ms since I was 18, I think both Miss and Mrs are (or have the potential to be) sexiest, ageist and should be disused, tbh. Though I appreciate many women prefer them!

I didn't change my name on marriage and dislike being called by my husband's surname, wouldn't matter what prefix was used (though I will say that most of my friends who have changed their names are happy to go by Mrs, and that does tend to be the assumption I get as well - ie by my DH's grandma who sends us cards to Mr and Mrs Hisname, bless her).

Anyway, in the OP the whole thing is a bit pointless because it clearly states that Mary's surname is Nelson, so I'd say she's Ms Nelson.

I’m married but didn’t take my husband’s name so I’m Ms Birth Surname (I loathe the term “maiden name”).

That being said, everyone in the world seems to want to refer to me as Mrs Married Name whether I like it or not…

How is Mx pronounced? I've only ever seen it written down.

I've heard it on Doctors (but they have got other pronunciations wrong, they are very trying-to-be-with-it) as Mix.

Ask. When you need to use a title and can't check, use Ms.

If a woman calls herself Mrs then I would call her Mrs as it's clearly her preference. If I didn't know what she called herself I'd probably say Ms.

Your DH is wrong. He appears to be insisting that because she now uses her husband's surname then she cannot be a 'Ms but has to be a 'Mrs', and if she wants to be a 'Ms' then she has to use her previous surname.

The whole point of using 'Ms' in the first place is to remove any connection between title and marital status. So it doesn't matter whether she uses her previous surname or the current one.

Does she even use her husband's surname anyway?

It's a hypothetical question.

I hate Ms. I also hate people assuming I want to be called Ms.

Yes. But we haven't been told what the hypothetical woman's surname actually is. People often do assume it's the husband's even when there's no indication, take it from someone who didn't change!

Let’s make it easy. All women are Ms and all men Mr.

Why all women don’t insist on this is beyond me. Men aren’t defined by their marital status so why should women.

its fucking archaic

Yes, it needs to be about sexual equality.

BTW, I know 2 couples who actually have the same surname (from birth).

Her name is Mary Nelson. If I didn't know her preferred title, I'd call her Mary Nelson but I wouldn’t in those circumstances afford myself a title either.

I think it is wrong to assume another person's title in their behalf.

My preferred title is Mrs. I make it very clear on forms, etc. I do not wish to be called Ms. I respect the right of others to use Ms.

I rather like plain Mary Nelson and John Smith. It is a helpful quaker custom whereby nobody has a title. It equalises.

Mmmm the Quakers were onto something there. I prefer not to use titles either, if possible.

For example, if Mary Nelson is married to Peter Clark, she is 'Mrs. Clark,' but I can also call her 'Ms. Clark.'

What do you mean "she is Mrs Clark"? She might not be.

But your husband is wrong that a married woman can't be a Ms. I've always been Ms, when single and now when married.

I thought we used the title is trying to be polite or show respect.
like we call a teacher Mr.XXXX, Mrs.XXX, call a doctor Dr.XXX., etc
isn't it?

I understand why some women don't like to be addressed Mrs, as they state very clearly above.
But I couldn't understand why you and some others don't like to be called "Ms"?

I'm married and my preference is Ms + maiden name

Because I do not chose to call myself Ms. My title is Mrs and it is the title I prefer. I prefer to be Roses Hellebores than Ms Hellebores.

He appears to be insisting that because she now uses her husband's surname then she cannot be a 'Ms but has to be a 'Mrs', and if she wants to be a 'Ms' then she has to use her previous surname.

yeah! thank you for helping me state it out, that is exactly what we argue for.

I am trying to use a hypothetical question to explain but seems not very clear.
it is good to know other pps thoughts btw.

Or even better, address people by their first name, titles serve no purpose at all except to provide irritation mainly to women, because if I know the woman in the OP is called Mary Nelson, I can just address her as such and don't to ask her which title she uses when she may only be using one because it's a compulsory field in online forms, so she's forced to.

But I have no idea why we'd be calling her Mary Clark when that's not her name unless she's decided to change it and the OP doesn't say that she has.

If her name is Mary Nelson why are you calling her Clark?

He appears to be insisting that because she now uses her husband's surname then she cannot be a 'Ms but has to be a 'Mrs', and if she wants to be a 'Ms' then she has to use her previous surname

We he's wrong. Titles have no legal status or definitive meaning. I was once in the ludicrous position where my driving licence said Miss, because I applied for it when I was 16 and didn't know any better, my car was registered to Mrs, because the registration form was completed by an idiot salesman and my insurance was Ms, because I did that myself so got it right. Not that I wanted to be a Ms, but you can't leave the box blank, so I picked the least worst option.

I'm older than most of you, I suspect. In my teens and young adulthood, everyone was 'Miss' until they got married, when they became 'Mrs'. At that time, divorce was also still frowned upon, particularly for the woman. That's just how it was.

Then (and I'm talking late 70's/early 80's here) divorced women - who had either had to revert back to being 'Miss' or remain a 'Mrs' when they weren't a 'Mrs' any more - began to use the term 'Ms' to denote that they weren't a spinster, nor were they married. Around that time, many femininists and lesbians began to use 'Ms' as well.

So in the minds of many people of a certain generation, 'Ms' stood for:
'divorced woman, what must the neighbours think',
'feminist, oh dear, must be a troublemaker, she needs a man to sort her out',
'how silly, of course she's not', or
'lesbian, let's pretend they don't exist'.

For some people, those connotations have still not been shaken off.