Lucy Letby appeal

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

Sorry if not allowed to discuss here but just seem that this vile creature plans to appeal against her original sentence as per yesterday’s news. Her defence team is leading this potential appeal.

WTAF?!

They haven’t reached a verdict on is it 6 or 7 poor other little babies who died and she’s suspected, I thought?

So sad for the poor parents and babies still.

I agree with this

It is so disappointing to see people against appeals and public funding thereof. Miscarriages of justice happen. Improper sentencing happens. Those issues can’t be resolved without the right to a publicly funded appeal and you can’t offer that right to some people and not others.

As for how criminal defence lawyers deserve to be struck off for doing their job - it’s honestly so stupid I can barely respond politely. Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves. Everyone. It ensures that fewer miscarriages of justice take place than currently do. It makes our system far, far, safer for everyone.

Er, this doesn't really make sense!

Of course she is allowed to appeal her sentence, just like any other person.

I followed the trial. No idea whether she’s guilty or not as the evidence didn’t prove it either way. It’s not just that the evidence in each case is circumstantial, it’s that it’s fairly weak.

Totally agree

How are people surprised about this? She pleaded not guilty. She's denied it all. So of course she's going to appeal.

I'm not surprised by this at all. I've been very nervous about her conviction since I started reading more about it.

The evidence is almost 100% circumstantial and some of the more 'solid' insulin poisoning evidence has been thrown into doubt by people showing that the bags would have had to be changed when Letby wasn't even on shift.

It looks like she also didn't have a very competent defence who chose to pursue the wrong things to try and show her innocence.

There is also the matter of all the other children who died on that ward not linked to Letby, they weren't murdered then but the others were? Based on what exactly...

I'm not saying she is innocent, but I am saying she clearly has grounds to appeal.

It's the rule of law. Innocent until proven guilty and due process. Now she is proven guilty on some of the charges, she can seek permission to appeal. Due process isn't exhausted yet. She might face retrial as well on the 6/7 where there was no verdict. Remember that everyone is entitled to legal representation too, and without lawyers to argue the case, as unpleasant as that is, there cannot be a fair trial or safe convictions. I'm all the alternative systems in the world, where these ideals are not adhered to, the first thing to burn is women's rights...

The justice system has delivered here. A vile murderer was identified, stopped and convicted. That conviction looks safe from the outside, so let's see what happens.

It says something about the state of the British public that I didn't realise this was a joke

@thedancingbear I also took your comments seriously! I was about to say they were some of the most stupid I've ever read on mumsnet... luckily I continued reading 😆

People really do. On Twitter I have seen people calling for the return of the death penalty for Lucy Letby, her parents, and her defence team.

I am not sure I have seen anyone say everyone who has doubts about the conviction should be executed too but I have seen several people say that anyone who thinks she is innocent should be in prison.

Um..... but an appeal by definition is when someone is found guilty....

So you mean if they are found guilty and Ill-informed public opinion reckons that is right, then they can't appeal....? But if there's a general sense that they might be a nice chap after all, they can?

This is no support to LL... but the concept of an appeal is to check that justice was done.... not a bad concept.

As there are some serious posters, I'm going to attempt a serious point: if there was ever a case that merited all the available appeals, it's Letby's.

It's not that I think she's innocent; I think she probably did it. But the case was built on (supposed) statistical overwhelming likelihood, plus bits of circumstantial evidence. There was certainly no 'smoking gun', nor was there a clear motive (her behaviour doesn't fit any known psychological condition with any specificity: I've seen Munchhausen's by Proxy mentioned, but it's nothing like that).

Anyone with a background in statistics (and I'm sort of marginal in this respect) knows that the average joe or jane is shockingly bad in their understanding of how chance and probability works. The trial substantially comprised (highly intelligent) non-specialists trying to persuade 12 randoms plucked off the street of a particular mathematical analysis of this or that complicated matrix of events. And someone's life literally turns on the outcome. This is something I find alarming.

So, yes, I think an appeal is appropriate, as I think this is an unusual case where the facts and their implications are tested to the nth degree. In a way, I hope she did it: nothing will bring the babies back, and if she's been convicted unfairly, that will be just another wasted life.

Everyone has the right to appeal.
I believe there are only a certain amount of times you can do it though.

She is being very clever by appealing so quickly.

If she just accepted her punishment people will think it’s because she’s guilty, but pleading innocent and appealing so early on is going to put doubts in people’s minds.

Some people appeal because they’re innocent.
Some people do it because they’re just trying their luck.
But some people are so used to getting away with things, that they do it to try and carry on manipulating people because that’s what they get off on.

The quote function is 99% fab.

However when people read they tend to quote at the post their on rather than go back to comments so miss people pointing out they are being sarcastic. (I do the same)

But agree with poster who says it just shows what's been about when people (me included!) took it seriously!

We talked about it quite a lot with my close friends.

Agree nobody has mentioned it at work though.

My apologies Dancing Bear..... unfortunately your early ironic posts do actually represent some people's opinions, so I took them at face value!

Absolutely agree with you.

This is so ridiculous I don’t even know where to start

There were 2 clear cut cases of medical negligence by doctors on the ward, one resulted in death the other in cerebral palsy. The latter resulted in an £8.5 million payout by the hospital.

Equally, the deaths actually peaked after LL had been taken off duty.

Remember that everyone is entitled to legal representation too, and without lawyers to argue the case, as unpleasant as that is, there cannot be a fair trial or safe convictions. In all the alternative systems in the world, where these ideals are not adhered to, the first thing to burn is women's rights.

I think some people would have been at home in the middle ages at the witch trials - if she was dunked and didn't drown, she was a witch so was killed, if she was dunked and then drowned, she actually wasn't a witch after all - oh well.

Nor do I. Unbelievable isn't it?

Well tax funds the justice system so yes they will.

If she has grounds for appeal then she does. If she doesn’t she won’t get one.

Would you rather live in a totalitarian state OP?? Because having a comprehensive and fair justice system is quite key not not living in one.

I don't agree her behaviour doesn't fit a typical pattern of people who commit crime.

Her whole behaviour phenotype isn't typical.

She just isn't diagnosed and it's not a defence.

Equally, the deaths actually peaked after LL had been taken off duty

No they didn't. Threads like this risk becoming dangerous when people quote untrue facts.

They decreased. To just 1 the following year. They have remained low. It's been recognised they changed the age of prems they take from 27 to 32 weeks but most of the babies she murdered or attempted to murder were over the 32 weeks anyway. So it's not a straight comparison to possibly the age of the babies.