Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Lucy Letby appeal

1000 replies

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 16/09/2023 07:33

Sorry if not allowed to discuss here but just seem that this vile creature plans to appeal against her original sentence as per yesterday’s news. Her defence team is leading this potential appeal.

WTAF?!

They haven’t reached a verdict on is it 6 or 7 poor other little babies who died and she’s suspected, I thought?

So sad for the poor parents and babies still.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
MartinChuzzlewit · 16/09/2023 23:15

At this stage it means nothing. And unles her legal team pull something compelling out the bag, it won’t happen.

echt · 16/09/2023 23:22

👍

ZadocPDederick · 16/09/2023 23:27

Mirabai · 16/09/2023 22:20

You cannot be that naive about the scientific evidence surely? Did you actually follow the trial.

I think it is you who are naive about the law and the way lawyers work.

You keep making all these portentous comments about the scientific evidence without actually identifying what you claim was wrong with it, citing your own evidence. It's very noticeable.

ZadocPDederick · 16/09/2023 23:44

There were gaps in that theory - what if a nurse had re-fed the baby 40mls after the projectile vomit to ensure it had milk?

There would be a record of the feed.

And from what he said (or avoided saying) it was more or less guessing that the others had air embolus, because they had a bluey coloured rash.

As I understand it, it was a rash that came and went in different parts of the body quickly, as the air temporarily oxygenated blood cells it came in contact with. That isn't what happens with sepsis. Sepsis would also cause other symptoms.

From what I saw, they didn't really have a case against her until the insulin aspect - but there was no proof that the babies had actually been injected with any insulin - the drip bags weren't tested and nobody saw anything. The Mother of one of the babies was diabetic and on insulin............I don't know enough about it but there are various reports that there are other causes of high insulin being found without it being injected (sepsis being one of them).

The blood samples from the two babies concerned shoed very high insulin levels and very low C-peptide levels. If the insulin occurred naturally, C-peptide levels would have been high. It was accepted that this could only have been synthetic insulin.

If there were issues with waste water and nurses were washing their hands from the taps they could have been transferring pathogens to the babies.

That would show up in blood tests.

The prosecution case was all based on Dr Evans findings and the note. The note is another topic but I do think it sounded like someone in distress at what she was being accused of and bits were taken out of context.

Not only Dr Evans.

I'm not sure what she was supposed to be found lying about other than being in a tracksuit rather than pyjamas but that sounds a bit flimsy too.

There were a number of other points, for instance that her evidence on whether she was in the vicinity of the babies at relevant times was at odds with other records such as when she swiped in and out and when medical notes were made on the computer; her evidence about being able to see from the door that a baby was pale when the baby was in the dark whilst LL was coming in from a brightly lit corridor, and the baby's face was obscured by a cover over the cot; her statement that she didn't get rid of the confidential notes she brought home because she didn't have a shredder, when in fact she did.

ZadocPDederick · 16/09/2023 23:46

Mirabai · 16/09/2023 22:40

I repeat: Poor. Defence.

Poor defence case, poor defence strategy.

You've seen the defence files then, have you? You know exactly what steps they took to get expert opinions, what opinions they received, and all about their discussions with experts before and during the trial?

BathingBeauty · 16/09/2023 23:58

Good. This is an example of a good justice system. She still won’t ever get out.
Rolf Harris fought against and overturned convictions, didn’t make a difference, we still know what he was.

Defence was poor because there was no defence. If they had died from infection then dirty sinks would have been relevant. Dirty sinks don’t cause insulin.

978q · 17/09/2023 04:36

and of course there are the PM's, which the Bench will obviously give careful consideration to, the ones overturned by prosecution witness, the very eminent Dr Andreas Manderide, who wasn't present at any of them.
The very eminent Dr George Kokai's submission to the Bench will make for interesting reference.

heartofglass23 · 17/09/2023 05:35

Her sentence was over the top.

The Manchester bomber got 55 years.

He is worse than Letby surely??

Robertius · 17/09/2023 05:53

Nope - they won’t be looking at any of that.

appeals are typically on new evidence / technicalities - for example judge directions to jury were wrong - evidence of an inadequate defence and so on.

sadly for Lucy she got a very fair trial and a very careful judge and a good defence lawyer in myers.

the appeal will fail.

TomPinch · 17/09/2023 05:56

Does anyone know the basis for the appeal? None of the news reports I can see say anything more than 'she's appealed', which isn't very informative.

978q · 17/09/2023 06:33

some of the more febrile of the armchair jessica fletchers, are confused between verdict and charges, no surprise, when a verdict is quashed on appeal, all is quashed, the Bench decides if retrial or acquittal, not complicated.

I do see robertius, with his wikipedia in hand, is still propagandising matters, an amusing interval in a very serious matter.

iloveeverykindofcat · 17/09/2023 06:40

@heartofglass23 huh??? The Manchester bomber is dead. You mean the brother who aided and abetted? No, aiding and abetting murder is not worse than actual murder.

978q · 17/09/2023 06:50

iloveeverykindofcat · 17/09/2023 06:40

@heartofglass23 huh??? The Manchester bomber is dead. You mean the brother who aided and abetted? No, aiding and abetting murder is not worse than actual murder.

It is, if for instance you were Derek Bentley.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 17/09/2023 07:14

Soontobe60 · 16/09/2023 10:16

You clearly have no understanding of the appeals system. She is applying for permission to appeal - so not actually appealing at this stage. Anyone who is found guilty of a crime has this right. Andrew Malkinson spent 17 years in prison for a crime it was eventually proved he didn’t commit. He appealed several times!
Even guilty people should have that right, no matter how strong the proof of their guilt is.

I do know that she’s applying for permission to appeal and if it should be granted by a judge. That much I do know. The way the BBC reported it said this but seemed to imply it was a done deal that she’d be allowed to appeal from what I heard.

OP posts:
Patineur · 17/09/2023 07:33

978q · 17/09/2023 04:36

and of course there are the PM's, which the Bench will obviously give careful consideration to, the ones overturned by prosecution witness, the very eminent Dr Andreas Manderide, who wasn't present at any of them.
The very eminent Dr George Kokai's submission to the Bench will make for interesting reference.

What submissions were they? Were they actually submitted?

ZadocPDederick · 17/09/2023 07:36

978q · 17/09/2023 06:50

It is, if for instance you were Derek Bentley.

He was charged with murder, not with aiding and abetting.

ZadocPDederick · 17/09/2023 07:37

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 17/09/2023 07:14

I do know that she’s applying for permission to appeal and if it should be granted by a judge. That much I do know. The way the BBC reported it said this but seemed to imply it was a done deal that she’d be allowed to appeal from what I heard.

Media reports often use "appealing" as shorthand for "applying for permission to appeal".

itsgettingweird · 17/09/2023 07:58

I would be interested in what her grounds for appealing are.

Can't imagine there new evidence which proves she wasn't there at each death or collapse.

Very much doubt a point in law as it was so carefully done.

And she wasn't found guilty for 2 counts and no verdict on 6 so there definitely no "oh she's guilty - full stop" going on.

If you appeal and are successful do you have to use the same defence team? I wonder if someone else has approached her saying they have found a weakness in the case?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/09/2023 08:37

ZadocPDederick · 17/09/2023 07:37

Media reports often use "appealing" as shorthand for "applying for permission to appeal".

Yes, it is absolutely not a done deal.

978q · 17/09/2023 08:38

Derek Bentley didn't murder anyone, Chris Craig did, they still hung him though, good old blighty justice!

Will history repeat itself,

The tale of Christopher Craig (aged 16) who shot a policeman in 1952 in the course of burgling a warehouse, and Derek Bentley (aged 19) who suffered the death penalty for the act his friend committed.
In this case the Lord Chief Justice misdirected the jury about the law and appeared to act as prosecutor rather than impartial judge. A public outcry and a petition from members of parliament was not enough to make the Home Secretary commute the sentence. But this case paved the way for the abolition of the death penalty in 1965. It was not until, rather too late, in 1998 Bentley’s conviction was quashed.

x2boys · 17/09/2023 09:13

heartofglass23 · 17/09/2023 05:35

Her sentence was over the top.

The Manchester bomber got 55 years.

He is worse than Letby surely??

Well.in that case surely Wayne Couzens,sentence was over the top.too?
He only killed one person
The fact is both were in a position of power and both were working in roles that were supposed to.protect the general public she murdered at least seven babies possibly many more what do you think her sentence should have been?

BygoneDays · 17/09/2023 09:18

Groovy48592747 · 16/09/2023 21:05

It should not be allowed to put an application to Appeal in. It is nothing but a monster.

A nonce indeed. Worst than Hindley, Shipman etc etc.

Unless of course she is completely innocent. As many convicted people have been.

x2boys · 17/09/2023 09:24

BygoneDays · 17/09/2023 09:18

Unless of course she is completely innocent. As many convicted people have been.

How do.you explain the deaths
Pretty arrogant of you and all the other sympathisers to think you know better then the jury who listened to.al the evidence for many month's .
If Lucy Letby,had been male I can guarantee there would be very few sympathisers

ZadocPDederick · 17/09/2023 09:27

978q · 17/09/2023 08:38

Derek Bentley didn't murder anyone, Chris Craig did, they still hung him though, good old blighty justice!

Will history repeat itself,

The tale of Christopher Craig (aged 16) who shot a policeman in 1952 in the course of burgling a warehouse, and Derek Bentley (aged 19) who suffered the death penalty for the act his friend committed.
In this case the Lord Chief Justice misdirected the jury about the law and appeared to act as prosecutor rather than impartial judge. A public outcry and a petition from members of parliament was not enough to make the Home Secretary commute the sentence. But this case paved the way for the abolition of the death penalty in 1965. It was not until, rather too late, in 1998 Bentley’s conviction was quashed.

Nevertheless, he was not convicted of aiding and abetting as you claim.

FloydPepper · 17/09/2023 09:29

x2boys · 17/09/2023 09:24

How do.you explain the deaths
Pretty arrogant of you and all the other sympathisers to think you know better then the jury who listened to.al the evidence for many month's .
If Lucy Letby,had been male I can guarantee there would be very few sympathisers

Why do you feel the correct legal process, which includes the right of appeal, should not be followed in this case?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.