Waitrose age ID check is bugging me

[Mothership4two]

I was is a smallish busy Waitrose (not my usual shop) with DS (25) and I bought 6 bottles of (not cheap) wine, a box of chocolates and a handful of day to day food items. At the till I put the items on the belt and bagged them while DS stood waiting by the end. The cashier didn't put the wine through and asked my son for ID. I was a bit confused and told her that this was MY shopping (I'm in my 50s and sadly do not need ID). She ignored me and asked for his ID again. When I repeated it was my shopping she said it was company policy - other than that she was pretty uncommunicative. So DS went out to the car to fetch his ID and there was a bit of grumbling from the couple waiting behind who then went off to find another till. DS came back and she put it through without a word.

I wasn't grumpy with her, I was just neutral, paid and left. It was irritating but we weren't particularly outraged and had a laugh about it in the car. DS said he hasn't been asked for ID in years (he looks his age) and that no "youngster" would be spending £70+ on wine for a party. We thought it was odd though.

I know there are much bigger things going on in the World to worry about, but it has bugged me since then. I know the cashier isn't a mindreader but it was pretty obvious it was my shopping and very obvious that DS is an adult. And also what happens if you go around with your 16 year old child or younger and happen to buy alcohol, would Waitrose then refuse to let you buy it? I'm sure that happens in supermarkets up and down the country all the time - buying alcohol when parents are shopping with their children. I understand that supermarkets have to have a policy for not selling alcohol to childen via others but it was patently obvious that was not happening. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

AIBU and has anyone else been put in a similar postion?

I got asked for ID in Asda last week. I’m 40…

So what's the policy? Not to sell alcohol to a person who is of age if they have someone obviously, or suspected to be, under age with them? So you need to send your kid away from the till whilst you pay? Or will you get stopped on the way out? I hate Waitrose these days - I'm sure they pick on me for the "random" self scan checks - do I LOOK like a shoplifter?!?! 🤣 And never asked for ID - rude.

What law says anyone accompanying you when you shop for alcohol should be ID checked? There's isn't one.

It makes no sense if you think about it. If you've got an 11, 12, 13 year old with you, should they be checked? A 5 year old?

If anyone's buying alcohol for an under 18 (which is an offence), then the under 18 would have to be very stupid to be trotting round the shop with that person.

What annoys me about this policy is it won't actually stop anyone buying alcohol for u18s. After first instance they would make sure only the person with ID near the shop.

Exactly @Lockthedoorbehindyou

I have a very tall grown up looking 13 yo son, can I not buy alcohol if he's with me until he turns 18? Ridiculous

Yes it’s ridiculous and not a legal requirement presuming you were the one paying

In that case it sounds like the cashier overheard the conversation of "I don't have ID" "ok, I'll put it through in my shopping then" which is absolutely a reasonable situation for them to refuse to sell it. They know it's for the other person, who looks under 25, and doesn't have ID.

Yes, this is correct. A "Proxy" sale can only be determined if you see money exchange hands, hear a conversation involving who is going to pay and who is going to consume the alcohol, or the person you'd deem underage, handles the restricted product. A situation where a parent or guardian is shopping with children (young, teens, adults etc) should not require the cashie to ask the younger person for i.d, unless they have a valid reason to believe that alcohol is being purchased on behalf of the younger person. It's a grey area in some respects, as a group of younger people where not all of them can produce valid i.d, would be classed as a proxy sale, and if i.d can't be shown for all, the sale should be denied. Trouble is, challenge 25 is drilled into cashiers, and the consequences of failing a think 25 test purchase, can be really catastrophic, for the store, and the colleague involved. You can be forced to personally pay a fine, which can be up to thousands of pounds, if you are caught selling alcohol to an underage person, or for failing a test purchase. The police actually organise test purchasers to come into stores, and check they are using the think 25 policy, so it's always in the back of everyone's mind, as it's not a situation you'd want to be in, and this is why they end up being overly cautious, and sometimes this train of thought over rules common sense. It's annoying, but I try to remind myself that the cashier is trying to protect themselves, their job, and their store, when asking for i.d. it's nothing personal.

I've had to do the same, and have refused sale in the same instance when the child couldn't provide ID. I'm not getting a criminal record for £11 an hour, sorry (not sorry at all.)

This. You’ve clearly never worked in a shop or bar. They have to be so strict, otherwise their alcohol licence can be revoked and the staff could get in trouble.

Happened to me once in a Sainsbury’s when accompanied by teenage son many years ago.
After that I sent underage child away and made sure the other had ID or sent them away every time I approached any checkout.
I still check now that youngest is 27.

I much prefer this, even if it can be a bit annoying. I know I need ID if I'm buying cigarettes, alcohol, whatever from our local Waitrose. It's a blanket policy, applied to everyone.

The local Tesco annoys me. Sometimes they'll serve me without ID, the next day I'll be ID'd by the same person. The lack of consistency is frustrating. I've left my full shop in the past, big monthly shop with a couple of bottles of wine, I was ID'd but didn't have my ID with me that day. I tend not to go there anymore as it's a pain.

But, if your teenager isn't with you at the time of purchase and you take it home and give it to them, unless you've said "This is for my 15 year old", that's all on you, the cashier doesn't stand to get the blame or the licence reviewed/revoked, fines imposed or sanctions applied to it for a proxy sale because they couldn't be seen as being able to reasonably suspect that's what you were going to do, and therefore they're not responsible for someone under age gaining access to alcohol.

If your teenager is with you, and you take it home and give it to them, then the cashier could be seen to have reasonably suspected that's what you were going to do and therefore are also responsible for someone under age getting access to alcohol.

The fact it's legal for you to do it is a moot point because it's still illegal for the cashier to sell it if a police/licencing officer or other official decides that the cashier should have reasonably known it was a proxy sale. And it's illegal for you to buy it if the person it's intended for is under 18.

Totally contradictory I agree, illegal to sell it, illegal to buy it but legal to give it in your own home over the age of 5. But the cashier is as bound by that as you are, they can't change it and a defence of "I was using common sense" "I was giving good customer service" isn't going to wash when the law, or the terms of the licence have been broken.

The people enforcing the licence terms and the law have no interest in common sense or customer service, they are there to ensure that anyone selling alcohol does so responsibly and within the terms of the law and the licence.

And the terms of any licence include a mandatory age verification policy, and you have to be seen as using it. Challenge 21 and 25 are considered best policy and least likely to result in under age sales. They're not the law, and they're not company policy, they're licence terms, the breaking of which can lead to an individual no longer allowed to serve alcohol (that's your job under threat then) fines for the person selling and the premises holder, review of the licence and restrictions imposed or ultimately loss of the licence - which are expensive to get and renew as well as the loss of income if you're no longer allowed to sell alcohol at all.

I'm not going to risk that so someone else can have a bottle of wine in all honesty, of course with that at stake the people selling it are going to err on the side of caution.

Alternatively we could always campaign for a change, in that the person buying the alcohol is solely responsible for where it ends up and anything that goes wrong and people can take responsibility for themselves. As someone who sells alcohol, I'd really much prefer that to the choice I have at the moment of being under threat of what is described above or being treated like shit by customers who have decided that I'm just being awkward for the sake of it and reactions ranging from being determined to prove me wrong to downright abusive and threatening.

No one died because they didn't get a bottle of Merlot to go with their dinner, it's really not the end of the world.

Carnewb

You've explained it well

It was necessary and correct - it could have been a proxy sale.

100% this!

Lots of shops are doing this. Probably because some adults buy alcohol/cigarettes/vapes for teenagers.

Not the same but similar. Last year my daughter then aged 9 was helping me shop in coop. We got to the till and the helpful child she is stood at the end of the conveyer belt packing the remaining few items of scanned shopping into the bag at the bottom of the trolley while I got out my card to pay. The till assistant suddenly yelled at her. Don't touch that it's illegal for you to touch that!! I turned to see my daughters horrified face with her hands on the 4 pack of larger I was in the process of paying for. My daughter burst into tears and we left the shop a bit shocked. I was fuming afterwards about the tone of voice she had used. I understand why a child shouldn't take it off a shelf and yes i admit that i probably shouldnt have allowed her to pack it in the bag but it was just so innocent. And it was really sad that a child helping her mum out in the shop went home worrying the police were going to come and that I would be arrested. It was the most random shopping experience of my life. Poor child was hysterical.

What I don’t understand is, if your son was 17 would they have refused to sell you wine? Surely if it’s for you what is the issue? It’s not like it was a pack of cider or alco-pops! What do people with teenagers do…just not go shopping???

Some of the laws around who to ask ID for don't make a lot of sense. I do sympathise with staff though who have to follow some of the rules as if they don't they personally pay the fines if caught out.

However sometimes the person asking doesn't use any common sense themselves.

A few years ago my husband was asked for ID (he was 39/40). He had ID with him and was getting it out his wallet, but conversationally asked the checkout operator "Haha I love being ID'd - before I show you how old do you think I look?". She replied "I'd say about 30 or 35?".

It was a challenge 25 policy so WHY was she IDing him?? It makes no difference to him/I if we get ID'd (it happens a lot, usually by someone much older than us who thinks we look young because we are compared to them (we look our ages I'd say)). But it's just SUCH a lack of common sense to ID someone who you think looks mid 30s.

The whole process is devoid of any intelligence.

I had to provide ID to buy paracetamol recently. I am 45.

I mean, if you go shopping with someone who you realistically could be buying alcohol for (so not an obvious child) then they have to ask for ID for that reason, you could have been buying the wine for him.

I go shopping with my sister a lot and we always check with both have our ID’s when we go because the likelihood is we’re both going to be asked.

I mean, if you just use a little bit of forward thinking next time and say “make sure you’ve got your ID as I’m planning to grab some wine” then there’s no needing to run back to the car and get flustered.

So when I worked for waitrose in 2006/7/8- this was their policy then... its to try and stop proxy sales (I was underage and had to get permission to sell alcohol and they always id'd everyone for the sale.... we regularly had mystery shoppers with teenage children to ensure that they were doing this as well..... if you have a child over the age of 12...

It’s a stupid rule. If one of you had ID and says you’re not buying it for the other person to consume then why not sell it to you? Presumably if you were illegally buying alcohol for a minor you wouldn’t parade them around the shop with you. It’s not illegal to stand next to someone buying alcohol if you are under 18.

It isn't the law though. A 24 year old being present when someone else buys alcohol is legal. A 16 year old being present when someone else buys alcohol is legal. It is perfectly legal to buy wine and then your 16 year old drink it at home. I believe the legal age for drinking alcohol in private is 5+.
And "being present" - what about other tills? How can they be sure there aren't Under 25s there, somehow breaking some non-law.
Maybe under 25s should be banned from all shops selling age restricted items.