I would like to ask questions about God/Jesus/Christianity with people who have faith (not non believers),

[BlockPreventor]

the reason I say that, is because I have been a non-believer my whole life and I know that POV.

I went to a CoE primary school so I think I know alot of the Bible stories and messages but not in any depth because my family was devout atheists. And I am a scientist.

however, at the age of 50 I think I might be 'finding faith', I don't really know what the term would be. there have been events and circumstances that I don't particularly want to go into, that have led me here. I have spent a lot of time in Church recently and have found it really comforting. I have prayed and I feel lighter. I can totally get on board with the ideology (as far as I know it). it fills in some of the holes left by science too. but I struggle with a lot of the actual belief in a creator and sacrifice of his son. I have a load of questions, but for starters;

1)if there is a creator, would she be female? it makes no sense that it would be male

2. if you join God in heaven when you die, how do all the graves open to raise the souls, when Jesus returns? aren't they already there?

3. I don't understand the logic of sacrificing Jesus for our sins. how does that help?

4. I'm not keen that heaven is for believers and non-believers don't make it. there are some abominable people who would get into heaven and some amazing people that wouldn't. I don't even want to go if it's full of douches

TIA

W@BlockPreventor

sorry I haven't read all the posts, so it may have already been suggested....

you could report your post & ask MN to move your thread over to to the Religion & philosophy board.

there's a religion and philosophy board?!?! 😱

Different people think differently about this but one idea is that God doesn't want to force himself on anyone, that wouldn't be freedom. So if God revealed himself fully, it would be so forceful it would have the effect of impelling people to follow him. So, he gives gentle encouragements and leaves clues and responds to people's "next step" questions as a way of still giving them freedom. The message is always there for people who want to look.

I think there is another issue too. There's the interesting story in the Old Testament about how Moses asked to see God so God hid him in the cleft of a rock and covered Moses face while he passed by and all Moses saw was the "back" of God after he passed by because "no one could see God's face and live".

We need to look at this story through ancient eyes. I think God is spirit and doesn't literally have a "back" but there's something about us not being able to bear the full force of God's beauty and holiness, at least not while we are still in this physical human state. It would disintegrate us, like putting thousands of amps through a two amp wire.

That is another reason why Jesus came. The carol says "Veiled in flesh, the Godhead see". People could encounter Jesus face to face and relate to God the human in a different way that was more "equal" . He limited and humbled himself in order that people could know him without being overawed.

Africa got Christianity much earlier than Britain. Bear in mind how close N Africa is to Palestine.

Some of the founding fathers are African. I wish my brain still worked, I could tell you more! But I've forgotten so much.

Hi @EducatingArti , we're acquainted! 😁

You are correct @pickledandpuzzled , on both counts.

On your third question what you are outlining is substitionary atonement. So, we sinned and someone had to pay the price but instead of it being us it was God (because Jesus is God). Other theologies of atonement are available! Not all Christians think of the atonement like this.

For example, Athanasius (v early Christian thinker) said ‘what has not been assumed has not been healed’ meaning that God became (assumed) a human being in Jesus so that our human nature could be healed. This is not about paying a price but about living a full human experience even to the point of death to show the depth of the creator’s love for creation and so the whole of creation could be brought back to God in the person of Jesus. It’s a bit difficult to explain in a short post but substitionary atonement is def not the only way of thinking about this.

On heaven and hell, Christian Universalism (everyone goes to heaven, their sins are the thing that is taken away because by their nature they can’t be part of heaven) is again a theology with a lot of good thinkers behind it (e.g. Bonhoeffer - who amongst other things tried to assassinate Hitler so he really thought a lot about sin and sinners!)

Finally, God in the Old Testament and God in the New Testament are the same God. The church had a big argument about this centuries ago and decided they are the same and we should try to avoid the vengeful/nice God split. Some scriptural text Old and New are really difficult and there aren’t any easy answers.

If you can get the book Heresies and How to Avoid Them it might be of interest - title is tongue in cheek! It’s about the debates when Christianity was developing and how certain things got decided.

I know we’re not supposed to offer this really but if you want to DM I’d be happy to talk with offline about questions. I’m a Christian who strives to be inclusive.

A couple of thoughts re Jesus dying as a sacrifice, most religions have the concept of sacrifice, usually as a way of placating the god/gods and thats how it was in the old testament. Where Christianity differs (possibly uniquely but I'm sure someone will enlighten us otherwise!) is in saying that Jesus came and fulfilled all the sacrifice that we would ever need to make. So when people talk about grace it's the idea that we don't need to do anything at all (no sacrifice, no good works, no best behaviour) to have favour with God- only to accept that Jesus/God is true. Which if you believe it is incredibly liberating.

What does a Christian God thikk about people who believe in a different God or are polytheists or have other spirituality? I have dabbled on Christianity but was put off by many things including an evangelical service where we were told to pray for the Muslims out there who had got it wrong.

@PumpkinSoup21
You make some good and interesting points and observations. I am also very interested in pursuing a more inclusive way of thinking as a Christian but I think I am kind of in the middle of it allat the moment.
Sorry op for a slight hijack.

See this is daft, women are much better at cleaning up men's mess than men!

God is portrayed as a man OP, because one of the key purposes of Christian affiliated religions is the preservation of the patriarchy, you need only give the bible a brief read to grasp this.

So no, he can't be a woman because that would invalidate one of religion's driving forces.

1. Why would God be female or male. You are putting ideals on to something so that you can understand it. If God created everything then surely it would be greater/more complex than humans. I think Hod is beyond our imagination. God has been assigned he because the bible was written by men in a society that valued men more than women, therefore they were giving God their greatest gender.

2)people don't normally die in their graves. They are already soulless when they get there. I don't pretend to understand how we go to heaven but souls would surely leave a body as it died so would not need to leave a grave.

3. I don't pretend to be any authority of what "Christians" believe. I personally believe that there are somethings that even God can't mess with for what every reason. He wanted everyone to go to heaven and people were not being good so he had to do something about it. So he sent his son, "God loved the world so much he sent his only son".

Im not sure how I feel about a God who can't control universal laws - but I think it makes him feel more real.

4. that's why Jesus died. So that all may have eternal life. That's what I believe anyway.

Actually God is portrayed as a woman in parts of the Bible. Female is part of the divine image as well as male. The divine wisdom passages in the old testament are referring to God as "she". Sometimes people think of the Holy Spirit as "she" too. I usually follow convention but have no problem with anyone who wants to say she.

I agree with you though that patriarchy has a lot to answer for, in Christianity and other religions too!

Theintelligencerising

I've no idea if there's an after life for non-believers

But what's important is that if there is a Hell it's the same as their lives on earth now, just a life lived without closeness with God in it

I have no interest at all in an afterlife (as a Christian) - heaven is here on earth for me, where I can effect things, where I can live in love as an individual

I don't give a crap about an afterlife

hmmm...but I thought the POINT was to live a good life. you're saying the point is to believe in God. maybe that's why I have considered Christianity hypocritical all these years, because I thought they were supposed to be empathetic, caring, compassionate, serving etc?

hijack away, it's all interesting. I thought Christianity was supposed to be inclusive anyway.....do you mean as an example, homosexuality?

ok, yes...I hadn't thought about Jesus dying on the cross in the context of sacrifice was normal in those times

@LaurieFairyCake I worry terribly after an afterlife. Daily. I am autistic and can't make myself believe something I don't. But I also fear my own annihilation and being tormented by demons/evil spirits when I die. I pray compulsively to a God to save me several times a day. My head's a bit messed up about religion

I used to think that this was the reason that everyone was religious. because they couldn't cope with the idea of death and not existing anymore, because it's frightening for lots of people. I am totally fine with ceasing to exist for myself. if my I DS were to die however, I would struggle with that

*kids

@BlockPreventor thanks for not minding my adding questions to your post.
I think people who have been brought up with religion naturally believe it. Also I know Christianity is about a personal relationship with God.
It must be nice to not fear your own death.

If there is a heaven, and non-believers don't have the possibility of getting there, I have prayed in vain for quite a few people who have died.

There will be no tormenting of evil spirits against you

That is NOT hell - hell is an absence of love, wholeness, peace - all of which you experience by being in relationship with God

If you already have a relationship with God, then that's what's promised to you after

If you don't, you get whatever your life is like now

(If we all believe in after lifes)

I am a lay preacher in the Methodist Church and literally every 3 weeks I give a sermon on this stuff.

It's always all about real life and how we live it with God in reality - if you want a more accepting and liberal church seek them (or the URC) out as they have same sex marriage etc etc

I've been a committed Christian for over 30 years. I think others before me have answered your questions quite well I would also suggest going to a Christianity Explored course. If you like I'll pray for you that you get clarity and peace.

I believe faith is what you want it to be and there will always be questions.

My dad was a minister, devoted his life to spreading God's word and died a young man. Where's the justice in that?

I believe when we go to heaven we exist individually as spirits and we live our lives there much as we do on earth, chilling out, watching over our loved ones and having fun. I believe bad people burn in hell. Who cares if that's the 'truth' or not. Nobody will ever come back and tell us.