I would like to ask questions about God/Jesus/Christianity with people who have faith (not non believers),

[BlockPreventor]

the reason I say that, is because I have been a non-believer my whole life and I know that POV.

I went to a CoE primary school so I think I know alot of the Bible stories and messages but not in any depth because my family was devout atheists. And I am a scientist.

however, at the age of 50 I think I might be 'finding faith', I don't really know what the term would be. there have been events and circumstances that I don't particularly want to go into, that have led me here. I have spent a lot of time in Church recently and have found it really comforting. I have prayed and I feel lighter. I can totally get on board with the ideology (as far as I know it). it fills in some of the holes left by science too. but I struggle with a lot of the actual belief in a creator and sacrifice of his son. I have a load of questions, but for starters;

1)if there is a creator, would she be female? it makes no sense that it would be male

2. if you join God in heaven when you die, how do all the graves open to raise the souls, when Jesus returns? aren't they already there?

3. I don't understand the logic of sacrificing Jesus for our sins. how does that help?

4. I'm not keen that heaven is for believers and non-believers don't make it. there are some abominable people who would get into heaven and some amazing people that wouldn't. I don't even want to go if it's full of douches

TIA

the Pastor seems very friendly and approachable. because of the reason I have been going to church, so have lots of others who wouldn't normally...hundreds of us. so he did say over and over again that people should seek him out to ask questions and have discussions. he was very encouraging. I just don't feel ready for that yet

I was going to attempt an explanation but I think @LaurieFairyCake replied so well I couldn't better that.

Also second advice of a chat with your local parish priest. Our local Catholic priest is lovely and has done some marvellous work in the community with the young people particularly.

Or C of E etc if you prefer. Though if I had to switch religion I liked the idea of Quakers best. So tolerant and inclusive. I even sent off for some information but haven't ever gone through with visiting yet.

and how did dying on the cross, fix Adam and Eve sinning?

I went to Catholic school OP and have still never heard an answer to this that isn't sort of self referential (simply saying 'he died for our sins' / 'he died for our sins so we wouldn't have to' etc) rather than explaining why or how him dying fixed those sins or somehow took on a burden that would otherwise have been taken by others. Always been keen to hear an answer so will watch the thread!

God in the old testament was angry, vengeful and frustrated. By sacrificing his only son it was an act of pure grace and love and all of the anger was poured out in that action so it didn't need to be taken out against humans. All that was leftover was grace. Jesus died in penance for our sins so that we could be loved and accepted by God just by grace not because we've done anything to deserve it. It's freely given.

@Lavender14 this makes me a bit wary of God though. that sounds like an abusive relationship. we made him so angry that he killed his son. we should always be grateful that he sacrificed his son to make up for all the shit that we do 🤷🏼‍♀️

am I beyond saving?? 😁😬

4. You won't see individuals in Heaven - the douches aren't there 'No one comes to the Father except through me' (Jesus) doesn't mean what people think it means in my opinion. He died for us, all the people who live in love are there.

@LaurieFairyCake so, when we are in heaven, we are one entity, not individuals.....do we have any memory of being human and being on earth?

2. Time is only something that’s on earth, in heaven there is no time as such. So ‘graves opening’ and letting people out who have been patiently waiting is just an image to describe how death doesn’t win out. Relatives who have died aren’t waiting there for centuries for us all to meet together. It’ll be like everyone died and went to eternal life all at once

this makes sense, thanks @HedgehogB

I don't know the answer to any of your questions, OP, and I don't know who or what God is, but personally I have developed an incredibly strong faith over the years.

In my case, faith was born out of recovery from a powerful addiction that could have killed me. I was advised to hand my life over and ask for guidance and that was pretty much all I did, but the changes that took place over the years were truly phenomenal.. My life changed totally and the depression and suicidal thoughts etc. are all long gone.

I am quite happy going into a church, a temple, synagogue or shrine - we are all striving for the same thing - and just sitting in silence and feeling the peace or actually praying (I say thank you a lot).

I still don't understand God and that's fine, because whatever happened to me altered my whole existence so completely, I could never be without it.

Hi @BlockPreventor

It's totally ok to remain sceptical about some aspects of "received wisdom" parts of the Christian faith - much of it is infected by misogynist patriarchy and I have to assume that God isn't so I am totally ok with rejecting any aspect of the church's teaching that doesn't fit with that.

(1) I think God is both male and female and neither. In genesis it even specifies that both male and female are created in God's image. I try to avoid male terminology as much as possible, or to balance it with female terminology. Many of the metaphors and analogies about God in thr bible are female.

(2) I don't know. I think the idea of bodily resurrection has been historically important to some people. It isn't to me, so I haven't thought about that too deeply.

(3) works from a starting point of the idea of sacrifice to purchase forgiveness, based on the older jewish laws about sacrificing different combinations of animals in different circumstances. Jesus's death has been understood theologically as a single massive one-time-achieves-this-all-for-everyone substitution for that, with the resurrection being "proof" that it worked. Personally I think it was more like God's way of trying to explain that this kind of transactional relationship wasn't really the plan for the relationship between humanity and divinity but an enormous 'reset button' was needed to demonstrate this. I see the crucifixion as being more about God placing God's-self right into the midst of human suffering in order to share in and transform the reality of suffering rather than being divinely distant from our plight.

(4) I agree with you. I'm not really sure I believe in heaven and hell at all, but if there is a hell then it's empty, and if there's a heaven and my lovely atheist, rude and rebellious granny isn't there then I'm not going (she was treated horrifically by so-called christians in the name of "saving" her and it deeply traumatised her and she would never set foot in a church but she was kind and loving and fought for justice and socialist liberation throughout her life). I reckon that if there is life after death then there's routes in to the good place for everyone - though the way may be longer and rockier for some. But I am totally ok with there perhaps not being anything and death being the end. It's ok for things to end. Life before death and building the kingdom of heaven here on earth is more important to me.

that is amazing @Usou , I'm so happy for you

I have experienced a part of what you are describing in just a month. it's so weird

I'm reading Romans by Andrew Ollerton at the moment and finding it a really informative, easy to read book that would answer a lot of new Christian's questions.
https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-books/bible-study/bible-study-guides/romans-9781399806428/

1. if there is a creator, would she be female? it makes no sense that it would be male

My kids joke that God is non binary! But actually yes! God does not have a sex. I think it's just the male pronouns to make 'him' easier to relate to and understand that this is a being who wants a relationship with you. 'It' would be difficult to relate to and 'they' is a very recent word so I think the choice was between he and she. In ancient times, a 'he' would be more respected and more natural to see as creating/ leading the universe.

2. if you join God in heaven when you die, how do all the graves open to raise the souls, when Jesus returns? aren't they already there?

I don't think that happens. Lots of people are cremated!

3. I don't understand the logic of sacrificing Jesus for our sins. how does that help?

There are a lot of links to the old testament, where animal sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Jesus was the ultimate and final sacrifice. However, he did rise again which is the other most important aspect of Christianity - not just that your sins are no longer held against you, but there is victory over death.

4. I'm not keen that heaven is for believers and non-believers don't make it. there are some abominable people who would get into heaven and some amazing people that wouldn't. I don't even want to go if it's full of douches.

I'm not sure what I think about heaven or not. I'm leaving that one up to God.

Ultimately, 'faith' is about a relationship we can have with our Creator. This relationship is enabled by the fact Jesus died because the Creator is absolutely holy and could not be close to us if we were still so sinful. It doesn't mean you don't still sin, but that this doesn't separate you from your Creator anymore.

I think if you start reading the Bible and just pray to understand it, you will see what you need to. I also think you can pray to find someone you feel comfortable to ask questions to. I believe God will send you someone.

So, as far as the cross is concerned, I think there are many layered meanings. It is deep and profound .
Don't think of God unilaterally deciding to sacrifice his son as part of some vindictive punishment. Remember Jesus is part of the Godhead and willingly laid down his life for us.

Someone quoted upthread "The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life"
Death has been ordained by God as the outcome of sin. It is a logical consequence if you like of not doing things the way God would like. It isn't so much about physical death ( although we do die physically) but spiritual death. Inability to commune and connect with God when we marr his creation in us.

If you think about it, God can't just ignore sin because it is so often the way in which people get hurt. We demand justice when people do something evil in our eyes. I don't think we would really want God to actually ignore wrongdoing (especially when it hurts us, or those we love.) God is just.

However he is also loving. Willingly, in Christ, he took on our death wages in his death. He bore it for us and when he rose from the dead he gifted us his resurrection life instead.

I also think that on the cross Jesus (God) entered into all of our suffering as humans. He showed himself as willing to experience undeserved deep pain and suffering as we sometimes experience too. He is not some God in heaven, remote and indifferent to what we go through, but God with us ( Emmanuel).

The Bible also talks about Christ conquering death. What is the ultimate finality for us has been defeated and something new and liberating and eternal has been given to us in it's stead.

As far as heaven and hell is concerned. This is something I'm still thinking quite hard about. However the New Testament talks about us being refined as by fire and that all that is made of wood and straw and rubble will be "burned away" and that which cannot be burned, gold and silver and precious stones will remain.

So I don't think you need to worry about the douchiness of people in heaven as their (and yours and my) douchiness will have been refined and gloriously only that in them/us which is created by God and is part of his design in them will remain and shine to his glory. Unlike another poster though, I don't think we lose our individual identity in heaven. God has made us individual as well as corporate and I think that stays.

I could answer the more theological questions you put-but I'm a non believer, so I'm barred!

Someone quoted upthread "The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life"
Death has been ordained by God as the outcome of sin. It is a logical consequence if you like of not doing things the way God would like. It isn't so much about physical death ( although we do die physically) but spiritual death. Inability to commune and connect with God when we marr his creation in us.

this is interesting to me @EducatingArti . I think this is what sparked the beginning of what might become faith, for me.

I believe I have been experiencing a gradual 'spiritual death' for years now. and I only recognised this after spending time in church..AND I think I recognised it BECAUSE I experienced some relief, from it

does that make sense??

you are not barred if you can answer, from a religious pov. I'm not interested in the 'well yeah, that's because it's nonsense' type responses

I also think Climate Change is going to bring about a 'biblical' type ending for us. I mean, that's observable

Dolores cannon answers a lot of those questions satisfactorily, but from a spiritual rather than purely Christian perspective. So:

• no gender, god is energy
• there is only heaven, or different spiritual plains, no hell, ( is the zombie jesus second return a thing? I wasn't aware)
• sacrificing jesus - imo jesus was a wise spiritual guru. Sacrificing for sins is a very literal view of things.
• all the douchebags reap a karmic return

Mere christinaity by C.S.Lewis is a great little read that explores Christianity and the Christian god.

another thing that bothers me is Christianity in Africa. it was introduced by the colonisers and so I struggle to see anything good about that

Yes, it does make sense. Look how Jesus always tried to reveal more of himself to anyone who came to him. And faith doesn't always happen suddenly, like a dramatic conversion, although it does for some people. Jesus talks about it being like a tiny grain of mustard seed that starts to germinate and then grow until it is a huge plant. For a while the growth is tiny and hidden like a seed germinating .

but why doesn't he just reveal himself fully to everyone from the get-go?

Do you mean that those of us without a belief in God will still have an afterlife, just one without God?

Experiencing God's love and his gift of life for us has to be something God wants for everyone I think but the way the colonisers when about telling God's message left a lot to be desired. Some of them, I think did what they did in good faith ( others were out and out exploitative) but they failed to distinguish well between the actual message of Jesus ( that brings freedom and is for all people for all time) and the western cultural packaging that they had wrapped it up in.

@BlockPreventor "you are not barred if you can answer, from a religious pov."
Sorry-I can't. Only from a scholarly pov.