Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

[anonymousamy]

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion.

What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

We're never going to know given the families right to privacy. Unless more charges are brought. It's a fair guess that police and the CPS brought charges on the cases they felt they had strong enough evidence on.

It's also worth noting that when Consultants were carrying out a thematic review after the first few deaths they noticed two correlations. Letby was the only medical professional on duty for all (by a significant margin) and they all happened between midnight and 4am. She was then moved to dayshift. The collapses stopped happening at night and started happening during the day.

I'd like to know more about this, even if they are supposed to have died of natural causes. The babies she's convicted of killing were first thought to have died by natural causes, even on post mortem. Was letby involved in the care of all of them before their collapse? Are these included in the 30 referred to by the police?

@MiniTheMinx have you watched the panorama on LL?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001q7dl

There has been 1 death in 7 years since LL was removed from the unit.

1.....in SEVEN YEARS

We aren't going to know unless the families come forward and say they've been told they're being looked into under operation hummingbird. We need to remember these are private families who's babies died and we aren't entitled to know their medical information.

What we do know is that between June 2015 and 12 months later there were 13 deaths on the ward and letby was on shift for all.

Why though? Why would they do that? They're highly competent and well regarded, BM is actually known for his attention to detail pre trial- its far more likely he didn't have much to work with than being incompetent. He did question a lot of the expert witnesses and did bring up most of the "gotcha" points people have brought up on here. It is indeed curious as to why the defence didn't call a witness beyond a plumber, I'm sure the answer is quite simple though...

They werent presented with cherrypicked evidence, they had the full breadth, her defence could have entered anything further that was relevant. I also don't buy your final point as by that logic she would have been found guilty of all counts yet she wasn't. Its disrespectful to suggest a jury who have had to listen to what they have would be biased as they're not as OpEn MiNdEd as you.

The managers and consultants would have shared a common goal in elevating their department and hospitals reputation as a centre of excellence for neonatal medicine. So I do not swallow a lot of this story of consultants being in conflict with managers, and hopefully the inquiry will shed light on this.

Absolutely not, this is invariably hardly ever the case.

Brearey discovered it on 13th Feb 2018 after he had been asked by the police to review the care of siblings and twins on the unit.

No he didn’t. It formed part of the case for police investigation he and his colleagues took to management in the winter of 2015/16. After which the consultants were forced to write a letter of apology to Letby.

Apologies. You’re right on this occasion.

Absolutely this ⬆

There was a snip on the Panaroma program about causes of deaths. One was HIE and another a congenital condition, presumably both being incompatible with life and were recieving palliative care.

I hate that I am having to be so blunt in my writing of this, the babies that were identified as suspicious was because, well they were as they were babies that were expected to survive. Some babies sadly died, some were killed.

Nailed it again ⬆

Imagine you're the parent of one of these babies or a colleague who has had to come to realise that you have worked with a serial killer and then you read threads like these with conspiracy theorists claiming that LL has been set up as the fall guy for hospital failings? Despite all of the evidence that she was guilty that the court heard over a number of months.

You should all hang your heads in shame for siding with a serial baby killer.

Mistakes happen in the NHS but not murders. Not baby murders. You are all disgraceful.

I'm hiding this thread because I've heard what she did to these babies and I cannot believe you are all so vile as to treat their murders as some kind of entertainment.

I think the 30 babies the police reffer to include babies at Liverpool. One way of convincing the "truthers" is if she is investgated and charged for deaths at Liverpool. I think the present conviction is shaky on two counts; Poor practice and mistakes (Gibbs really should be muzzled) having contributed to these deaths and the fact its all circumstantial. Does anyone know of any other conviction for murder where there is any doubt as to whether murder was 100% the cause of the death? Or does it matter?

Having said all this listening to the podcast I was 100% convinced she's guilty. I'm not easily convinced by much.....but yes to the fact of her holiday, at the swap from nights to days and her removal from duties.

And who is Saritta?

Yes, they were expected to survive, in the context of a clean environment, appropriate care and timely interventions, but they were nonetheless particularly fragile babies, for example, Baby G was given a 5% chance of survival at birth.

She also survived being abandoned on a treatment trolley after Dr Gibbs failed to inform her nurse or switch back on the monitor. Thankfully Letby found her and summoned help.

All of this.

The mind absolutely boggles that people think well-regarded consultants and experts would ALL go to these lengths to frame someone. The same person who noted initials of victims in her diary, grouped handover sheets together etc etc etc I could go on and on and on. Those (ie journalists) who were present every day in court have come out and said the evidence was overwhelming. But of course conspiracy theorists who just want to feel special in some way and have read some things on Twitter, know better....

Absolute insult to the jury but even more so the families. Just stop and go find a different hobby.

Absolute nonsense.

Sarrita has got a lot of email addresses! 😂

How many have there been then? A link would be nice.

She’ll have loads of Matalan cards

Here you go

How can it be be the same way jury members could research the trial? They don't need to research it, they were there, and they were given copies of all the evidence.

That only goes up to 2018 so the last four years aren’t accounted for. Strange how the average before and after 2015/16 was two a year.

Equally strange that I didn’t ask you. 🤷‍♀️

To say nothing of the fact that manifestly it didn't cover her back and couldn't, because taking home the notes actually cast suspicion on her rather than exonerated her.

There's a clear peak in deaths, although the unit was downgraded when she left the vast majority of the babies in the trial would have been suitable to be admitted under the criteria so that doesn't account for the lowering by itself. Despite popular belief its (thankfully) actually rare for neonates to die in NICU. With the level of monitoring its also rare for these sort of collapses.

Also it's a blank word document on the back of a purported FOI request.

I'm not saying it's definitely not genuine but someone could manipulate documents like that if they want to. We live in a post truth age as this thread clearly demonstrates.