Page 34 | Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

anonymousamy · 2023-08-26T21:32:27+00:00

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion. What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

978q · 31/08/2023 20:55

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 20:49

@Mustardseed86 But the other bags were not discarded, they were used for other babies without incident.

@Blossomtoes which makes it harder rather than easier to contaminate the bag undetected.

August 1st, 2015
Nurse Taylor was the designated nurse for Baby E on Night Shift from 8:00pm on August 1st to 8:00am on August 2nd.
Baby E had his first incident of bradycardia where his heart rate dropped by around half to 79bpm and his oxygen saturation was recorded as 84%. This incident lasted for around 45 seconds. No apnoea was identified in the clinical notes for this incident.
At around 2:00pm Baby E’s insulin infusion was lowered.
August 2nd, 2015
At around 2:10am Baby E’s insulin dosage was increased.

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 20:58

orangegato · 31/08/2023 20:55

Maybe she wasn’t picky about which baby had the bag she just had to kill one. There weren’t an infinite number of babies so she could probably have taken a guess.

Exactly.

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 20:59

@Seashellies
Are you suggesting a well respected, highly competent and experienced defence team would purposefully be a part of this misdirection?

I think her solicitor was woefully incompetent and failed to properly interrogate the evidence and source witnesses.

And an independent jury of whom have given months and months of their lives to this case?
The jury are restricted to examining what they are presented with and what they were presented with was highly cherrypicked with an inadequate defence.

Or are you suggesting the police forged evidence to steer towards the desired verdict?
No, I think they got infatuated with big clever important men telling them there was a serial killer on the loose then constructed a case to suit that narrative.

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:00

978q · 31/08/2023 20:55

August 1st, 2015
Nurse Taylor was the designated nurse for Baby E on Night Shift from 8:00pm on August 1st to 8:00am on August 2nd.
Baby E had his first incident of bradycardia where his heart rate dropped by around half to 79bpm and his oxygen saturation was recorded as 84%. This incident lasted for around 45 seconds. No apnoea was identified in the clinical notes for this incident.
At around 2:00pm Baby E’s insulin infusion was lowered.
August 2nd, 2015
At around 2:10am Baby E’s insulin dosage was increased.

Show quote history

Where’s this from? Link please.

TomPinch · 31/08/2023 21:04

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 20:59

@Seashellies
Are you suggesting a well respected, highly competent and experienced defence team would purposefully be a part of this misdirection?

I think her solicitor was woefully incompetent and failed to properly interrogate the evidence and source witnesses.

And an independent jury of whom have given months and months of their lives to this case?
The jury are restricted to examining what they are presented with and what they were presented with was highly cherrypicked with an inadequate defence.

Or are you suggesting the police forged evidence to steer towards the desired verdict?
No, I think they got infatuated with big clever important men telling them there was a serial killer on the loose then constructed a case to suit that narrative.

What you think is unimportant.

LizzieSiddal · 31/08/2023 21:07

Well if it’s so obvious that LL in innocent, I’m sure there will be solicitors queuing up to put in an appeal for her.

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:07

No, I think they got infatuated with big clever important men telling them there was a serial killer on the loose then constructed a case to suit that narrative.

In which case you’ve failed to understand anything about how the four year investigation was carried out. It was specifically designed to ensure this didn’t happen. You might find this enlightening.

Operation Hummingbird: The investigation behind the conviction of Lucy Letby

Operation Hummingbird is our investigation into the murders and attempted murders committed by Lucy Letby.Lots has been and will be written and broadcast by ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T33A90OCHQk

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 21:08

TomPinch · 31/08/2023 21:04

What you think is unimportant.

Show quote history

I'd laugh, but there are 17 dead babies and one young woman in jail.

An inadequate defence, cherrypicked evidence and a police force that got carried away with conspiracy theories does justice to none of them.

TomPinch · 31/08/2023 21:12

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 21:08

I'd laugh, but there are 17 dead babies and one young woman in jail.

An inadequate defence, cherrypicked evidence and a police force that got carried away with conspiracy theories does justice to none of them.

Show quote history

You need to find another hobby.

Also, any idea why Hawkins replied on your behalf?

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:17

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 21:08

I'd laugh, but there are 17 dead babies and one young woman in jail.

An inadequate defence, cherrypicked evidence and a police force that got carried away with conspiracy theories does justice to none of them.

Show quote history

But according to you there was any deliberate harm done to any of the babies. So how do you account for the huge spike in deaths in 2015/16 which fell back again in subsequent years?

Itsnamechange · 31/08/2023 21:17

Oh look. One disappears and another pops up.

Hi Sarrita.

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:18

Itsnamechange · 31/08/2023 21:17

Oh look. One disappears and another pops up.

Hi Sarrita.

It’s like Whack a Mole.

twoandcooplease · 31/08/2023 21:20

itsgettingweird · 31/08/2023 20:22

Why did LL send cards to some parents and not all?
I'd speculate that it was parents that she had particular interactions with or was particularly affected by the deaths of their babies.

It was a Mother's Day card. The baby neither does or was part of the case. She did take numerous photos of the baby having removed it's breathing tubes though and told the parents they were removed for cleaning.

This still bothers me. I felt uncomfortable to listen to the interview with those parents and how they described the numerous times she photographed baby without breathing tubes on a Polaroid camera and made a handmade card it's just bizarre. That set of parents seemed to have a much bigger relationship with LL than the other parents of babies who were hurt or killed

But then on the other hand, when I was in hospital and a week whilst having ds, some of the nurses really took to my baby and me (weren't so bothered about DP lol).
I wouldn't find it strange if any of them added me on fb to check in on me or DS. If they gave me a card when I was stuck in the hosp on a special day like Mother's Day then it would be so appreciated by me so I don't know

TomPinch · 31/08/2023 21:22

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:18

It’s like Whack a Mole.

Show quote history

I blame it on the decline in railway modelling and trainspotting. Such innocent pastimes for the obsessive.

Janieforever · 31/08/2023 21:26

I’m also looking forward to the appeal based on all these science on trial conspiracy theorists updated evidence.

oh wait..

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:38

Thank you to the posters who shared the link to the Mail podcast. I've now listened to all of it.

For the record, so as not to get into a slanging match, I have no opinion on Letby, her character, possible motivation or whether she is guilty or otherwise. Unlike the jury I haven't spent months in a room with her or heard or seen all the evidence.

I do though have personal experience of clinical negligence that resulted in death, and experience of dealing with trust management. The managers and consultants would have shared a common goal in elevating their department and hospitals reputation as a centre of excellence for neonatal medicine. So I do not swallow a lot of this story of consultants being in conflict with managers, and hopefully the inquiry will shed light on this.

I have a lot of questions, and no answers! but in Episode 57 Gibbs (a very poor specimen of arrogance and ineptitude, now retired, which also coincides with the down grading of the unit, removal of letby and decline in deaths) says there were "several more deaths" not included in this trial. Does anyone know if these deaths occurred at Chester between 2015 and 2016?

Also I would be interested to know how many other deaths occurred, what was their cause, was letby in anyway involved, did those babies have post mortem? what other collapses, near misses and how many "clinically stable" babies were moved to tertiary and what was were the outcomes? anyone know?

I've done an awful lot of research now into causes of air embolism, purpura type rashes, causes of air in stomach, loopy bowels, NEC, septicaemia, and pneumothorax, pneumonia, and the possible causes of hepatic haemotoma in neonates, and the complications caused by incorrectly positioned UCVs and chest drains. Maybe.....just maybe just as Gibbs himself admits "clinical errors may have contributed" and since there are plausible alternative causes for the presenting causes of death (no disputing the cause) that her conviction is on quite shaky ground?

Janieforever · 31/08/2023 21:45

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:38

Thank you to the posters who shared the link to the Mail podcast. I've now listened to all of it.

For the record, so as not to get into a slanging match, I have no opinion on Letby, her character, possible motivation or whether she is guilty or otherwise. Unlike the jury I haven't spent months in a room with her or heard or seen all the evidence.

I do though have personal experience of clinical negligence that resulted in death, and experience of dealing with trust management. The managers and consultants would have shared a common goal in elevating their department and hospitals reputation as a centre of excellence for neonatal medicine. So I do not swallow a lot of this story of consultants being in conflict with managers, and hopefully the inquiry will shed light on this.

I have a lot of questions, and no answers! but in Episode 57 Gibbs (a very poor specimen of arrogance and ineptitude, now retired, which also coincides with the down grading of the unit, removal of letby and decline in deaths) says there were "several more deaths" not included in this trial. Does anyone know if these deaths occurred at Chester between 2015 and 2016?

Also I would be interested to know how many other deaths occurred, what was their cause, was letby in anyway involved, did those babies have post mortem? what other collapses, near misses and how many "clinically stable" babies were moved to tertiary and what was were the outcomes? anyone know?

I've done an awful lot of research now into causes of air embolism, purpura type rashes, causes of air in stomach, loopy bowels, NEC, septicaemia, and pneumothorax, pneumonia, and the possible causes of hepatic haemotoma in neonates, and the complications caused by incorrectly positioned UCVs and chest drains. Maybe.....just maybe just as Gibbs himself admits "clinical errors may have contributed" and since there are plausible alternative causes for the presenting causes of death (no disputing the cause) that her conviction is on quite shaky ground?

Do you genuinely believe, her defence didn’t search far and wide for medical refutal and simply decided to go for it was murder but she didn’t do it? This is what you think?

it really is like whack a mole. I’ve no idea why I’m even responding to it. It is hideous.

Cailleachian · 31/08/2023 21:46

I do find that video enlightening. Very enlightening in fact.

May 17 Section
DSup Paul Hughes
0.53" The immediate question for me was "Well why dont you go and arrest her right now? And its a good question".

CI Darren Riley
3.09 "I knew that there was going to be a case to answer, otherwise he wouldn't be gathering people in. I was given a couple of babies, one of them is an insulin case, it was very quickly obvious that someone ...had administered insulin to this particular baby.

But the insulin wasnt discovered until Feb 2018.

Itsnamechange · 31/08/2023 21:48

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:38

Thank you to the posters who shared the link to the Mail podcast. I've now listened to all of it.

For the record, so as not to get into a slanging match, I have no opinion on Letby, her character, possible motivation or whether she is guilty or otherwise. Unlike the jury I haven't spent months in a room with her or heard or seen all the evidence.

I do though have personal experience of clinical negligence that resulted in death, and experience of dealing with trust management. The managers and consultants would have shared a common goal in elevating their department and hospitals reputation as a centre of excellence for neonatal medicine. So I do not swallow a lot of this story of consultants being in conflict with managers, and hopefully the inquiry will shed light on this.

I have a lot of questions, and no answers! but in Episode 57 Gibbs (a very poor specimen of arrogance and ineptitude, now retired, which also coincides with the down grading of the unit, removal of letby and decline in deaths) says there were "several more deaths" not included in this trial. Does anyone know if these deaths occurred at Chester between 2015 and 2016?

Also I would be interested to know how many other deaths occurred, what was their cause, was letby in anyway involved, did those babies have post mortem? what other collapses, near misses and how many "clinically stable" babies were moved to tertiary and what was were the outcomes? anyone know?

I've done an awful lot of research now into causes of air embolism, purpura type rashes, causes of air in stomach, loopy bowels, NEC, septicaemia, and pneumothorax, pneumonia, and the possible causes of hepatic haemotoma in neonates, and the complications caused by incorrectly positioned UCVs and chest drains. Maybe.....just maybe just as Gibbs himself admits "clinical errors may have contributed" and since there are plausible alternative causes for the presenting causes of death (no disputing the cause) that her conviction is on quite shaky ground?

The consultants shared with Panorama multiple emails they'd sent hospital managers trying to raise concerns about Letby, with responses shutting them down and instructing them to not put this in email anymore. They shared the apology letter they were forced to write following her upheld grievance. These guys still work at COCH so they'd be pissing away their jobs with an easily disprovable lie.

Karen Rees even admits the consultants raised multiple concerns (although denies she said she'd take responsibility)

There were 13 deaths in neonatal that year. Letby was on shift for every single one. Most would still have been cared for after the downgrade. They stopped the day she was removed and there's been one death on the neonatal ward since. ONE IN 7 YEARS.

sebanna · 31/08/2023 21:50

978q · 31/08/2023 20:55

August 1st, 2015
Nurse Taylor was the designated nurse for Baby E on Night Shift from 8:00pm on August 1st to 8:00am on August 2nd.
Baby E had his first incident of bradycardia where his heart rate dropped by around half to 79bpm and his oxygen saturation was recorded as 84%. This incident lasted for around 45 seconds. No apnoea was identified in the clinical notes for this incident.
At around 2:00pm Baby E’s insulin infusion was lowered.
August 2nd, 2015
At around 2:10am Baby E’s insulin dosage was increased.

Show quote history

Slightly confused if you mean baby E or F. Baby F was poisoned with insulin, baby E was his twin who died.

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:51

Janieforever · 31/08/2023 21:45

Do you genuinely believe, her defence didn’t search far and wide for medical refutal and simply decided to go for it was murder but she didn’t do it? This is what you think?

it really is like whack a mole. I’ve no idea why I’m even responding to it. It is hideous.

Show quote history

What exactly is hideous? the fact that Gibbs drops into his interview that poor practice may have contributed? and also that there were other deaths and collapses not included? in my opinion he may have been better to have declined the interview.

I'm interested in these "other deaths" that he mentions, does anyone know what he is referring to?

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 21:54

But the insulin wasnt discovered until Feb 2018.

Yes it was. Brearby discovered it in 2015.

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:56

Itsnamechange · 31/08/2023 21:48

The consultants shared with Panorama multiple emails they'd sent hospital managers trying to raise concerns about Letby, with responses shutting them down and instructing them to not put this in email anymore. They shared the apology letter they were forced to write following her upheld grievance. These guys still work at COCH so they'd be pissing away their jobs with an easily disprovable lie.

Karen Rees even admits the consultants raised multiple concerns (although denies she said she'd take responsibility)

There were 13 deaths in neonatal that year. Letby was on shift for every single one. Most would still have been cared for after the downgrade. They stopped the day she was removed and there's been one death on the neonatal ward since. ONE IN 7 YEARS.

Edited

Show quote history

Thank you, do we know the cause of deaths for the other babies? Was letby investigated in relation to all of the deaths?

LizzieSiddal · 31/08/2023 21:58

I'm interested in these "other deaths" that he mentions, does anyone know what he is referring to?

I presume he meant babies who died of natural causes rather than those who were murdered.

Janieforever · 31/08/2023 22:04

MiniTheMinx · 31/08/2023 21:51

What exactly is hideous? the fact that Gibbs drops into his interview that poor practice may have contributed? and also that there were other deaths and collapses not included? in my opinion he may have been better to have declined the interview.

I'm interested in these "other deaths" that he mentions, does anyone know what he is referring to?

Show quote history

All deaths or attacks where they could evidence it was through malevolence was included. Any baby where it was deemed natural causes was not. So yes of course there were babies who died of natural causes who were not included.