Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

[anonymousamy]

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion.

What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

Surely it's what they are saying that should be debated rather than focusing on who's saying it, ?

If the information has any validity then that's what should be the focus, rather than discrediting the person offering the intelligence ?

Still not addressing the fact that this is irrelevant to LL's case, I see?

"Still not addressing the fact that this is irrelevant to LL's case, I see?"

Just correcting you and your little coterie's knowledge base, would be wrong not to.

Ah, wasn’t aware of that.

Yes, it’s like the Nicola Bulley speculation but arguably worse this time.

There isn't any intelligence being offered.

Mmm but it can't have been that unnerving as they later considered asking her to be godmother. I honestly think the reason she got away with it for so long was because she was very good at appearing "normal".

Wasn't Beverley Allitt god-mother to one of the twins she murdered??

I do agree it's hindsight really that changes perceptions of behavior a lot. NICU is a unique environment too, you do really get to know the parents of the babies you care for and the parents invariably put a lot of trust in you. I've worked with nurses who have crossed what I'd see as a professional boundary in befriending parents, we also get messages from families we cared for a decade ago, it does imprint a lot on people who have experienced it beyond other hospital admissions. None of her behaviour as we've had described sounds like it'd be a red flag for murdering babies, I suspect her colleagues more assumed she was just really consumed by the job.

I don't disagree with that but clearly she was irate (their words), which with hindsight does strike them as quite sinister. It's odd anyway, without assuming or knowing about any negative motivations.

I think some of her behaviours should have raised concern, but you're right that she came across as so harmless and just very dedicated etc, that it seems to have effectively stopped any further curiosity or critical thinking.

I would be interested to hear more on this @itsgettingweird (unless you’ve shared it already and I’ve missed it, in which case I apologize!)

A couple of us have discussed this episode below. I would listen to the podcast yourself @anonymousamy , I didn't find it that chilling at all. Certainly it seemed she had an issue with boundaries but many people in that kind of profession do.

It's the information being discussed now on the thread.

Parents who's baby was born (March 2015). LL has their baby boy in room 1. She made friends with the parents. Made them a homemade Mother's Day card and enclosed a picture of their boy minus his breathing tubes and when they questioned it she said they were being cleaned.

They found it odd but as mentioned didn't question it at the time. Probably because NICU is a very sterile environment in ways people don't understand. It's like a different world that all happens within that small space. They thought everyone would get Mother's Day cards and found it odd they didn't when they discovered they were the only ones.

She took more photos of their baby's without the tubes and gave various reasons, cleaning, thought parents would like it etc when they questioned it. They said the mothers card card seemed like a nice gesture of a picture of him without tubes. They said they were quite perplexed why she thought they'd keep wanting loads.

Mum suggested about making her godmother and dad said no - thought it was a step too far and her interest was because it's her job.

When the baby moved to another room another nurse was out as his designated baby. LL was furious. She tried many times to get the nurse to swap. She made the nurse feel really uncomfortable and she told the parents. Not sure of why nurse told parents and on the surface I don't think she should have but it may be that she felt like the parents would like to know how much LL wanted to care for their son?

It's another case of where people have found her behaviour at odds with the norm but nothing that screams red flags. And the red flags are actually her being overly nice to the point it almost seems churlish to mention it iyswim?

It's on Apple and Spotify. The trial of LL episode 59. Another victim?

As you can find so little to dispute, I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the vast majority of the fantasies you have posted are just that.

"As you can find so little to dispute"

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
Voltairee*

You are being at best naïve. If the person isn't qualified to offer an opinion then their information has no validity. Some opinions really are worthless, and worse, a waste of people's time.

Also if a person repeats discredited arguments and doesn't discuss in good faith, they deserve to be mocked.

God she sounds odd. Well, I mean obviously she is odd (to say the least) given what she’s done. But yes, more difficult to raise issue with the lack of boundaries when she ‘was only being nice’/thought you’d like it’. You implicitly trust the medical staff when you’re a layperson (well I do anyway) which allowed her to get away with a lot of this stuff - “trust me, I’m a nurse”.

I've just listened to the podcast with the parents of the potential other victim.

I'm sure what they are saying is true but won't they have compromised any police investigation or trial by talking so openly about it?

No it’s fairly irrelevant if they talk or not.

currently there is about 30 other babies the medical experts feel they can evidence were killed by malevolent actions, and likely many more as they work through every baby she cared for.

it’s like shipman, he was convicted of killing 15, but they think the real number was about 250.

it’s actually unlikely letby will be brought to trial again as she is already serving a whole life sentence. A trial is costly annd ties up the courts, and she’s already got the max sentence. She’s never coming out.

They will just want to know absolutely how many babies she killed and let the families know. The parents of the 30 babies have all been notified their child’s death could have been murder and that it’s been investigated. Those parents are not speaking. If they find more babies as they work through the families will continue to be notified.

dint get me wrong, it may come to trial, that decision is still to be made,. But I suspect there will be no further trial for her.

don't get me wrong, it may come to trial, that decision is still to be made,. But I suspect there will be no further trial for her.

I'm not sure any trial going forward would be a fair trial. A large inquiry would probably be fairer and more appropriate in the circumstances.

Yea, you are right, as said, I think it’s highly unlikely there will be another trial. It will be handled like shipman was. Which was an inquiry. And that was also due to the fact the publicity meant a fair trial would not be feasible. At the inquiry they found he’d murdered approx 215 more people I think.

I strongly suspect this is what they will do with letby. No further trial and an inquiry to establish the facts of the deaths of the other babies where they feel malevolent action was the cause of their deaths.

I’m on episode 37 of LL podcast, she’s being questioned by the prosecution. She insistent that everyone else is lying, Drs, nurses, parents, about so many things LL did/said. So we are meant to believe that out of all these people, LL is the one telling the truth.

I was also very shocked when asked about the over 200 pieces of confidential hand over sheets which were found in her bedroom/garage/ parents house, she said they were kept in a confidential way!
When asked how a black bin bag in her garage was “confidential” she said because it was her house, why she thought the papers in her parents house was “confidential” she said it was because her parents never went in her room.!!
She’s so obviously lying, deluded and thinks the jury are fools.
I’m actually really shocked at how many lies she is telling.

Did you not notice the "that's normal behaviour for me" comment when asked why she boarded all the paper and kept some in nice boxes?

I found that interesting. Normal for her? Maybe. But normal?

And how she said "I can't recall" when he said x y and z people all said this happened. If she couldn't blame them all on lying she couldn't remember it - apparently. Yet on the flip side has clear recollections of other things that other did or said wrong (in her opinion)

Yes I agree with you @itsgettingweird on all your points.

I’ve just listened to the bit where she’s asked about how she could tell a baby was pale from the doorway of the nursery, when it was very dimly lit. (She’d just walked in) The prosecution asked what happens to your eyes when you go from a well lit hallway into a dimly lit room. She said “I don’t know”. He replied, quite rightly- you’re a nurse and you don’t know what happens in that situation?
Again she is blatantly lying!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66597122