Page 20 | Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

anonymousamy · 2023-08-26T21:32:27+00:00

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion. What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

Seashellies · 28/08/2023 18:05

mikado1 · 28/08/2023 17:45

Her parents will be getting incredible abuse, hate mail etc right now. In the end of the day, it's not on them and their lives have also been ruined by this. To those who say they'd disown their child, you just don't know. I remember one of the Columbine killers' mothers being on Oprah talking about the experience from her point of view. Of course the victims and their families are and should always be the priority. Blaming and abusing and assaulting the parents doesn't help tho and isn't right either.

I agree, they're not on trial at the end of the day and what a horrific position to be in.

TheSkull · 28/08/2023 18:10

Janieforever · 28/08/2023 17:41

Observed in the past on who? Her parents? Do you know them?

Show quote history

No of course I don’t know them!!! I mean Ive observed how mentally damaging certain parents can be to their children!

Catlover1705 · 28/08/2023 18:25

Just listened to the trial podcast and all the parents appeared to have been married which is a bit unusual.

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 18:27

lifeturnsonadime · 28/08/2023 16:49

I'm guessing not so pipe down and sit back down into your armchair and realise you have nothing to say diagnosistically in this case and you are embarrassing yourself.

You want me to pipe down whilst you are coming up with unsubstantiated reasons why a jury of 12 is wrong about 14 convictions of either murder or attempted murder. That's funny.

No I'm not a psychologist but I don't think it takes being one to realise the behaviour is far from normal and that someone who can do these things is a psychopath whether anyone could see the signs before or not.

I am really not the person embarrassing myself on this thread.

Nope.

I gave accurate verdicts In response to someone who said the jury didn't have doubts after hearing 10 months of evidence.

I don't know where you're coming from thinking i'm saying a jury could be wrong in 14 convictions. That wasn't my argument. My argument was in response to a poster who said the jury should be trusted as they heard all the evidence over 10 months.

So i pointed out that even after hearing all of that evidence, there were only 3 charges where she was unanimously convicted. So it's not a case of me thinking jurors are 'wrong' but a number of jurors hearing all the evidence and still not being convinced to convict so the 'jurors heard all the evidence and decided she was guilty so don't worry about it isn't reassuring for me when they all sat through 10 months of a trial and so many didn't feel confident to convict.

And I also added, the case against LL was a case based entirely on expert medical evidence retrospectively made after initial post mortems and external investigation and analysis by the Royal College of Paediatrics concluded there was no obvious reason for the elevated mortality rates.

it could be unreasonable to expect a jury to assess and ananlyse exprert medical testimony. Snd previous trials and convictions of innocent people tell us it might not be right.

But also, your psychiatric assessment of LL as a psychopath when you admit you're not in any way qualified to diagnose anything, yeah you should pipe down and be embarrassed.

Nothing I've said is embarrassing. Just facts.

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:30

@mikado1

No. I do know myself. I wouldn’t condone my adult daughter killing multiple babies with intent. Full stop.

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:33

@SisterwifesofAUB

Oh give over with your jargon. It’s YOU that is embarassing yourself. You do know that psychiatrists can’t see in peoples minds? That it’s not an exact science? That the DSM is so widely disputed that it’s pretty much accepted it’s a farce created by old, white men.

Please…. We all know LL was a psychopath or did indeed have psychopathic traits. Zero “qualifications” required for that. Honestly? you’re coming across very poorly.

WhisperingHi · 28/08/2023 18:37

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:30

@mikado1

No. I do know myself. I wouldn’t condone my adult daughter killing multiple babies with intent. Full stop.

Well they don't believe she's guilty, so that's not the same thing at all, full stop.

If you felt deeply that your child was innocent, you would turn your back on them? Yeah right.

WhisperingHi · 28/08/2023 18:38

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:33

@SisterwifesofAUB

Oh give over with your jargon. It’s YOU that is embarassing yourself. You do know that psychiatrists can’t see in peoples minds? That it’s not an exact science? That the DSM is so widely disputed that it’s pretty much accepted it’s a farce created by old, white men.

Please…. We all know LL was a psychopath or did indeed have psychopathic traits. Zero “qualifications” required for that. Honestly? you’re coming across very poorly.

No she's not. You come across a lot worse than her in my eyes.

Stop making it personal and being nasty. She's entitled to a view, even if you don't believe it.

BIossomtoes · 28/08/2023 18:39

a number of jurors hearing all the evidence and still not being convinced to convict so the 'jurors heard all the evidence and decided she was guilty so don't worry about it isn't reassuring for me when they all sat through 10 months of a trial and so many didn't feel confident to convict.

It doesn’t appear to be “so many”. Most of the verdicts were 10-1 so it’s not illogical to surmise that there was one juror who wasn’t convinced. I’m currently about halfway through the podcasts and I can’t see how anyone couldn’t be convinced. The evidence is overwhelming.

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:39

@WhisperingHi

Yes and I was disagreeing with her overall view. Grow up.

MisschiefMaker · 28/08/2023 18:40

Sorry if this has already been said but which podcasts are you listening to @BIossomtoes @Catlover1705 ?

BIossomtoes · 28/08/2023 18:41

MisschiefMaker · 28/08/2023 18:40

Sorry if this has already been said but which podcasts are you listening to @BIossomtoes @Catlover1705 ?

https://open.spotify.com/show/1Kzpxy1tGKf0G4z0i3PfIM

There you go. Warning, there are A LOT!

The Trial of Lucy Letby

Listen to The Trial of Lucy Letby on Spotify. Lucy Letby, the 33 year old former neo-natal nurse, has been found guilty of murdering 7 babies and attempting to murder 6 others while they were in her care at the Countess of Chester Hospital in the North...

https://open.spotify.com/show/1Kzpxy1tGKf0G4z0i3PfIM

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 28/08/2023 18:41

To those people who are questioning why LLs parents are supporting her, seeing her in prison etc.
look at your own child, your favourite or only child. Preferably one who is always well behaved, dutiful, hard working and devoted to you. Now imagine they are on trial for baby murder. Without any actual direct, irrefutable evidence such as forensic/cctv/eyewitness/confession.
would you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that they were guilty ? People deceive themselves when it comes to their loved ones because they cannot live with the truth. I'm sure that Mrs Letby has clung onto the tiniest shred of doubt because the alternative is acknowledging the unbearable reality that "my precious daughter murdered tiny babies"

WhisperingHi · 28/08/2023 18:41

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:39

@WhisperingHi

Yes and I was disagreeing with her overall view. Grow up.

😂 alright.

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 18:50

dessyh · 28/08/2023 17:48

Letby just seems similar to Shipman? He was probably mid 20s when he started and likely killed hundreds over the 20 years before he was caught. He managed to go decades before rousing suspicions and that wasn’t from his behaviour but from the unusual number of deaths. Perhaps he committed a cluster of killings like Letby just prior to this.

While she targeted multiples, he killed old women. Both had appeared in the media in a professional capacity. Both appeared outwardly normal/respected. Shipman had red flags from forging drugs prescriptions and later stealing/trophies from victims. Letby had things she’d be struck off for like hoarding confidential info/trophies in handover notes that shouldn’t have left hospital, removing essential breathing tubes as photographed, being inappropriate and insensitive with parents.

Both had loved ones steadfastly refusing to believe guilt. Shipman’s wife believed his tale that one of his many elderly women victims was a secret drug addict. His wife actually kept a load of his victims jewellery he was found to have stored in his garage.

He’s widely regarded as a psychopath who was addicted to killing. Their professions allowed them to do it easily.

Shipman had a drug addiction decade's before he was accused of murdering patients.

And not just a drug addiction but fraudulently using his status as a Dr to forge prescriptions and prescribe himself pethidine, an opioid in the 70s.

He was reported to, and investigated by the Police and criminally convicted and fined. As part of that he was also reported to the his governing body. He wasn't struck off

People (you included)should really, really do the most basic of research before saying things.

Shipman had.a history of extremely worrying behaviour which included not

just drug misuse (everyone potentially is at risk of being an addict and it could be considered a mental illness) but worryingly, using his status as a Dr to commit fraud and access drugs.

itsgettingweird · 28/08/2023 18:57

Cailleachian · 28/08/2023 12:59

@lifeturnsonadime "She WAS unanimously convicted of three murders!"

The verdict was only unanimous on one murder - Child O
She was convicted on majority verdict of six murders - Childs A, C, D, E, I and P

But judging by SM and here and how many people cannot bring themselves to believe she's guilty despite all the evidence proving to most she is - that doesn't really surprise me.

It'll be interesting to know what the 12th juror would have concluded.

mikado1 · 28/08/2023 18:59

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:30

@mikado1

No. I do know myself. I wouldn’t condone my adult daughter killing multiple babies with intent. Full stop.

It's not condoning to show up.i can't tell you what I'd do asI have never been there that position, and hope I will never come close.

mikado1 · 28/08/2023 19:00

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 28/08/2023 18:41

To those people who are questioning why LLs parents are supporting her, seeing her in prison etc.
look at your own child, your favourite or only child. Preferably one who is always well behaved, dutiful, hard working and devoted to you. Now imagine they are on trial for baby murder. Without any actual direct, irrefutable evidence such as forensic/cctv/eyewitness/confession.
would you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that they were guilty ? People deceive themselves when it comes to their loved ones because they cannot live with the truth. I'm sure that Mrs Letby has clung onto the tiniest shred of doubt because the alternative is acknowledging the unbearable reality that "my precious daughter murdered tiny babies"

Absolutely

lifeturnsonadime · 28/08/2023 19:02

@SisterwifesofAUB

You are posting on this thread to try to cast doubt that the convictions are accurate.

I have no idea why you are doing that.

In 3 cases verdicts were unanimous.

In the rest we have no idea what the doubt of the juror was. Did you listen to the judge's legal directions? I find it reassuring that not all allegations were unanimously proven rather than the opposite.

But I'm not going to argue with you. You think you have some superior knowledge, crack on.

In the meantime justice has been served in the way that the law of this country, with one of the best legal systems world wide has allowed. You don't like it, well that's a reflection on you.

Efacsen · 28/08/2023 19:03

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 18:50

Shipman had a drug addiction decade's before he was accused of murdering patients.

And not just a drug addiction but fraudulently using his status as a Dr to forge prescriptions and prescribe himself pethidine, an opioid in the 70s.

He was reported to, and investigated by the Police and criminally convicted and fined. As part of that he was also reported to the his governing body. He wasn't struck off

People (you included)should really, really do the most basic of research before saying things.

Shipman had.a history of extremely worrying behaviour which included not

just drug misuse (everyone potentially is at risk of being an addict and it could be considered a mental illness) but worryingly, using his status as a Dr to commit fraud and access drugs.

Show quote history

This is a bit of a florid description of Shipman's drug abuse

He was arrested and charged for forging one pethidine prescription - he underwent re-hab and was considered to be sufficiently recovered to remain on the GMC register without restrictions. He was about 28

No evidence of drug misuse after this and was a well regarded local GP for the next 25-30 years until he he started murdering elderly women

itsgettingweird · 28/08/2023 19:03

The thing that always makes me think the jury were mariculture is the fact for 1 baby (M) they found for 2 counts of attempted murder on the same date one guilty and 1 no verdict.

They obviously genuinely took beyond reasonable doubt seriously.

Otherwise it's easy to say "well we think she tried to murder this baby at 9am so it seems reasonable she was guilty for the 11am collapse too" (times made up for illustrative purposes)

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 19:06

Seashellies · 28/08/2023 17:17

I'm not sure what you're rambling on about to be honest, I was posting in response to the posts about how some articles have been written since the trial and that there have only been one or two people come forward since to say about what she like. Nothing about the inclusion of these in the trial or whether I think it suggests she's guilty or innocent.

That doesn't mean she's innocent but it does mean, as the forensic psychologists have said, that if she's guilty, she is an unprecedented anomaly that would represent a complete overhaul of the previous theories and understanding of medical serial killers.

Well yes their understanding should be updated, I don't think not fitting the mould means she isn't guilty. Shipman wasn't to be honest either- doesn't mean he didn't do anything. Thankfully there haven't been huge numbers of medical serial killers really, so you'd expect the mo to update and change at this point.

Show quote history

Shipman absolutely fits the mould.

As I've mentioned in another post. He was criminally convicted of forging prescriptions to feed his pethidine addiction in the 1970s.

So not just an addict but a Dr proven to be a liar who used his status as a Dr to commit fraud and feed his addiction of an opioid drug.

Red flags all over the place.

If you're going to comment on cases and compare it to LL you should do just the very basic research.

Just Googling will tell you there were concerns and criminal convictions in Shipmans history..

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 19:15

TheAloe · 28/08/2023 18:33

@SisterwifesofAUB

Oh give over with your jargon. It’s YOU that is embarassing yourself. You do know that psychiatrists can’t see in peoples minds? That it’s not an exact science? That the DSM is so widely disputed that it’s pretty much accepted it’s a farce created by old, white men.

Please…. We all know LL was a psychopath or did indeed have psychopathic traits. Zero “qualifications” required for that. Honestly? you’re coming across very poorly.

What jargon?

EmilyBrontesGhost · 28/08/2023 19:18

In the meantime justice has been served in the way that the law of this country, with one of the best legal systems world wide has allowed.

Well, when there is only one defence witness. And that witness was a plumber I don't think we're looking at one of the best legal systems world wide.

What I see is us looking at a kangaroo court.

Seashellies · 28/08/2023 19:28

SisterwifesofAUB · 28/08/2023 19:06

Shipman absolutely fits the mould.

As I've mentioned in another post. He was criminally convicted of forging prescriptions to feed his pethidine addiction in the 1970s.

So not just an addict but a Dr proven to be a liar who used his status as a Dr to commit fraud and feed his addiction of an opioid drug.

Red flags all over the place.

If you're going to comment on cases and compare it to LL you should do just the very basic research.

Just Googling will tell you there were concerns and criminal convictions in Shipmans history..

Show quote history

Yes if you're rewiring history to highlight one aspect of his life and purposefully omitting the fact he was a well respected and highly regarded doctor who people considered to be 'nice'. Forging a script for an opioid and/or having an addiction does not fit the mould of what was previously known of medical serial killers.

Well, when there is only one defence witness. And that witness was a plumber I don't think we're looking at one of the best legal systems world wide.

She had one of the best defence lawyers, don't you question indeed why she didn't have any further defence witnesses? Probably as she tangled herself up in knots during her testimony.