Page 10 | Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

anonymousamy · 2023-08-26T21:32:27+00:00

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion. What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

DarkForces · 27/08/2023 20:08

MikeRafone · 27/08/2023 18:48

you are suggesting that since 2016 when LL was removed - so in 7 years on this ward caring for sick babies - not so sick when ward status was changed - that one death occurred? that would be incredible

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It might be incredible but it's also true

Lifeasweknowit25 · 27/08/2023 20:09

in terms of people who question her guilt, I think this is quite common.
I have to admit I work in a field that would have been involved.
( I was not )
I always suspected she was guilty but there was certain babies and causes of deaths as well as the info given regarding the lead up to the death that unfortunately I couldn’t say without reasonable doubt. However this may have changed if I had knowledge of the full pathology reports.

Gpnever · 27/08/2023 20:10

Bookist · 27/08/2023 18:06

I believe some people are born without their brains being wired up to a conscience or any sense of morality. The connection is simply absent. I believe Letby murdered the first baby just out of curiousity and because she could. Then discovered that she really liked the ensuing attention and drama, so did it again and again.

If you could actually see inside of Letby I think there would just be an empty void that just happens to wear a human face.

I have always thought that if she was guilty she probably murdered the first one by accident or negligence, and this was what clued her into the excitement and attention of doing it again. When you look at the methods they reckon she used, the air embolus, for example, she could have set a drip up wrong and realised too late she hadn’t primed the line, leading to a collapse. She sees no one suspects, gets the glory for helping, and does it again and again.

Boudicasbeard · 27/08/2023 20:11

@Cailleachian

Where did you got any of that information? It directly conflicts with the information put out by Operation Hummingbird about their investigation process and the sworn testimony of officers in court.

Are you really suggesting that Chester police lied about the methods they used in the investigation?

Are you also suggesting that the other seven experts used by the prosecution. Are also lying?

Elvera2 · 27/08/2023 20:12

People act like Letby was this nice nurse working in an hospital who overnight became a psychopathic serial killer. And then her parents and everyone else was like 'omg what happened'

LL was always this way at least as an adult. She would have surrounded herself with people who didn't figure out she was manipulating them.

Boudicasbeard · 27/08/2023 20:17

@itsgettingweird

Exactly!

If you look at the timeline of events then it does seem as if the grievance against the consultants is part of a larger plan to paint herself as a victim/ manufacture a defence for later. She was starting to see that people were on to her but probably knew that the evidence they had was limited. She was just making sure it looked like she was being picked on.

Which again makes me question her. If you work in a profession that has such a huge burden of trust then the rule of thumb is to self report and actively be looking for things- it could happen here. She was awfully keen to be reporting other people but did not want anyone looking into her, so she lied and manipulated herself into a position where they had to apologise to her. Deeply weird.

Seashellies · 27/08/2023 20:19

There are 13 registered experts for neonatal deaths, 2 for perinatal deaths, 1 for sudden infant death,8 for unexpected infant deaths, 3 for unnatural deaths,13 for death of babies, 8 for unexpected death of babies, 1 for cot death, 14 for paediatric deaths, and 7 for unexpected child deaths. Dewi Evans is not registered under any of these categories.

Why didn't her defence offer up any of these as witnesses then? DE was an independent expert, but the prosecution and the defence could have instructed their own if they deemed it supported their case. Occams razor certainly suggests that the reason the only one they called was a plumber is because no one else was prepared to or because it didn't help their case- unless you also believe a highly experienced, well regarded and incredibly accomplished defence KC was purposefully also conspiring against his client? Which is a lofty claim.

Seashellies · 27/08/2023 20:21

Not witnesses sorry but their experts.

Cailleachian · 27/08/2023 20:26

I have no idea why the defence case was so weak, but on a positive note I think its potentially grounds for appeal.

Boudicasbeard · 27/08/2023 20:27

@Cailleachian Are you a criminal barrister?

MisschiefMaker · 27/08/2023 20:29

Escapefromhell · 27/08/2023 19:19

LOL, this is just like all those armchair virologists who popped up during the lockdowns. Turns out that they are all forensic scientists, criminologists and lawyers too…

Well with hindsight we now know that the "experts" were talking a crock of shit with their exaggerated Covid forecasts so maybe we'd have been better off listening to the armchair virologists rather than just accepting what we were told like good little school girls!

drpet49 · 27/08/2023 20:30

Elvera2 · 27/08/2023 20:12

People act like Letby was this nice nurse working in an hospital who overnight became a psychopathic serial killer. And then her parents and everyone else was like 'omg what happened'

LL was always this way at least as an adult. She would have surrounded herself with people who didn't figure out she was manipulating them.

This. Her parents know

CakeForAll21 · 27/08/2023 20:30

To be honest as someone who lives near the countess and pregnant I do not think this is the end of the story.

The death rate was high for several years and the stillbirth rate. After lucy was taken out the hospital it was downgraded so they no longer take sick babies however the death rate remain unusually high and peaked in around 2019 which is 2 years after she was removed.

I am very worried as I am pregnant and the countess is our specialist hospital (local hospital is just a small one). I am worried she wasnt the killer or not the only one as why is it still high.

Seashellies · 27/08/2023 20:30

Cailleachian · 27/08/2023 20:26

I have no idea why the defence case was so weak, but on a positive note I think its potentially grounds for appeal.

On what grounds?

BIossomtoes · 27/08/2023 20:32

Cailleachian · 27/08/2023 20:26

I have no idea why the defence case was so weak, but on a positive note I think its potentially grounds for appeal.

Which of the 14 convictions and whole life tariffs might it be grounds for appeal for?

MagicClawHasNoChildren · 27/08/2023 20:33

Cailleachian · 27/08/2023 20:26

I have no idea why the defence case was so weak, but on a positive note I think its potentially grounds for appeal.

I think the defence case was weak because they could offer nothing in her defence.

Make of that what you will.

JanieEyre · 27/08/2023 20:34

MikeRafone · 27/08/2023 19:07

Presumably there's plenty of DNA evidence because she was so involved with looking after the children

no, there wasn't DNA taken, no toxicology reports, no post mortoms - it was all done retrospectively

Well, no, there wasn't enough evidence to make anyone think those tests were necessary at the time. But DNA wouldn't have got them anywhere anyway, as there were very good reasons why her DNA would be all over the babies, their clothes, their cots etc. But DNA is relatively new and yet criminals were still convicted safely every day for decades before it was used as a forensic tool.

LonelyFlans · 27/08/2023 20:35

I remember reading an explanation of the expert witness process on Reddit- the likelihood was that the expert witnesses may not have helped the defence case, which was why they weren't called.

It's here if anyone is interested.

Seashellies · 27/08/2023 20:37

MisschiefMaker · 27/08/2023 20:29

Well with hindsight we now know that the "experts" were talking a crock of shit with their exaggerated Covid forecasts so maybe we'd have been better off listening to the armchair virologists rather than just accepting what we were told like good little school girls!

Show quote history

Did you read anything from the inquiry? The actual experts such as Whitty were actually very balanced and suggested lighter touch restrictions etc but it was the gov who didn't want to backtrack. I haven't looked into this globally but I'd imagine politics had an impact on decisions rather than just the science; it doesn't mean actual credible experts were wrong. People sat at home saying ridiculous things based on nothing at all aren't worth listening to to be honest. Neither are those professionals with their own agendas. The information and data was out there all along for those who could be bothered, what made no sense to me was those who would discredit say a doctor saying something they disagreed with but agree without question someone who supported their own view with the rationale they're a doctor of course they know. Surely if you're critical of someone's point of view it'd apply across the board but nope.

Anyway.

Boudicasbeard · 27/08/2023 20:37

It is very telling that the defence had their own experts, who attended the pre trial case conference (which is what happens in England because is not the US) and then chose not to call them to testify in court.

Which does suggest that what their experts came up with either agreed with the prosecution or would actively harm LL’s defence.

It was a tricky case to defend because the evidence all pointed in the same direction. All Ben Myers could do is poke for holes.

ThatSunCreamSmell · 27/08/2023 20:38

Cailleachian · 27/08/2023 20:26

I have no idea why the defence case was so weak, but on a positive note I think its potentially grounds for appeal.

How can you have no idea? The defence case was weak because her defence was weak.

CakeForAll21 · 27/08/2023 20:40

@MikeRafone @DarkForces

The death rate is still high. I am concerned that lucy is not the killer and its either someone else or incompetence.

I am pregnant and currently trying to see if I can give birth at Leighton hospital in crewe and not the countess as it is really concerning they have the attitude of we have the killer so nothing more to see here...

I am shocked by the number of people who wont accept that deaths are still higher than other hospitals. I am not here for politics or trial debate but I think people need to be educated on that as for locals like me it is shocking.

Seashellies · 27/08/2023 20:42

CakeForAll21 · 27/08/2023 20:40

@MikeRafone @DarkForces

The death rate is still high. I am concerned that lucy is not the killer and its either someone else or incompetence.

I am pregnant and currently trying to see if I can give birth at Leighton hospital in crewe and not the countess as it is really concerning they have the attitude of we have the killer so nothing more to see here...

I am shocked by the number of people who wont accept that deaths are still higher than other hospitals. I am not here for politics or trial debate but I think people need to be educated on that as for locals like me it is shocking.

What deaths are you looking at? Do you have a link to the data? Stillbirth rates were high around the time of LL but haven't seen anything post 2018 myself.

Mooshamoo · 27/08/2023 20:43

Someone wrote on here that there has been only one death in seven years, since Lucy left.

Someone else (who lives near Chester hospital) said that the death rate was still high after Lucy left, and was in fact at its highest peak two years after Lucy left.

Which is correct?

Boudicasbeard · 27/08/2023 20:44

@CakeForAll21

Are you looking at perinatal (still birth) or neonatal (post birth) death rates?