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Original poster

I cost the taxpayer less but that’s not good enough ?!

120 replies

ImNotdrainingsociety · 25/08/2023 18:16

Had a family event descend into an argument today because nobody liked my facts.

SIL has a dc the same age as mine (3)

She works and gets 85% of her nursery fees paid (it’s really expensive)

I am a sahm and get some UC as I’m a carer but my UC is less than her 85% nursery cost help …..MIL had been moaning about me not working how ‘it won’t help dc problems you know ‘ (SEN) and how ‘you’re not contributing’ but as soon as I pointed out the amounts after asking SIL what her nursery cost is and working out 85% I was apparently’acting like a bitch ’!!!

As far as I’m concerned neither of us is doing anything wrong but when attacked I simply started the facts as to what each of us ‘costs the taxpayer’ as they kept going on at me !

OP posts:
JemimaTiggywinkles · 25/08/2023 21:34

He wasn’t there but he’s going to see MIL tomorrow so has said he’s going to be speaking to her as he’s not happy.

That's good. Please agree between yourselves that you never, ever have to justify your parenting choices to his family. He shouldn't even start on about the various classes, because that feeds their idea that they have a right to question your choices. They don't. They deserve no explanation whatsoever. They deserve a "how dare you question our choices or suggest we have contributed to DDs ASD?!"

Ignore the dickheads on this thread too. Contribution to society comes in many forms. Ime, those who earn the most money are very rarely those I'd choose to have in my ideal society.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 25/08/2023 21:36

presumably if she gets 85% of her childcare paid, she is a lone parent?

Ravaged · 25/08/2023 21:39

Daffodilwoman · 25/08/2023 20:03

And where is your husband in all this? Is he working? Perhaps suggest to mil that you go out to work and he becomes a sahp. I bet she would not like that either.
As far as the person who is a sahp, they are doing nothing wrong. They are not receiving benefits and as long as they are a decent parent, they are doing the best thing for their child. Unfortunately the capitalist society we live in chooses to ignore this. Children looked after by a caring parent are better off than those shoved into care facilities. I say this as a child of a working mother.
However, I can see why people get annoyed when you get paid to look after your own child.
I think the system is completely wrong.

Not this ignorant bollocks about carers allowance again. Fucking hell.

It’s a pittance- if all the unpaid carers packed it in and the state had to pay carers to take over it would cost exponentially more!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Benefits Families
applesandmares · 25/08/2023 21:40

@AintnocasseopoeiainWasingtonHeights okie dokie. What does this mean?

the massively high cost of specialist childcare for say 11 hours per day (or 85% of that if you want to be picky) plus the cost of OT/SALT/physio etc training and availability for someone other than the OP to do that daily

As far as I'm aware, OP isn't paying for specialist childcare and neither is the tax payer. Is this what the taxpayer would be paying for if OP was working?

Threenow · 25/08/2023 21:42

I don't live in the UK, and have never heard all this criticism of SAHMs that there is on MN. It's nothing to do with anyone else whether or not a woman returns to work, or stays home with her child. I can't help but wonder sometimes if all this "oh, but you aren't contributing ......" is simply envy.

AintnocasseopoeiainWasingtonHeights · 25/08/2023 21:42

applesandmares · 25/08/2023 21:40

@AintnocasseopoeiainWasingtonHeights okie dokie. What does this mean?

the massively high cost of specialist childcare for say 11 hours per day (or 85% of that if you want to be picky) plus the cost of OT/SALT/physio etc training and availability for someone other than the OP to do that daily

As far as I'm aware, OP isn't paying for specialist childcare and neither is the tax payer. Is this what the taxpayer would be paying for if OP was working?

Yes, that is what the state would have to fund if the OP was in full time work. You have to take that into account in the cost-benefit analysis - there isn’t a ‘free’ option that the OP is costing more than.

Ravaged · 25/08/2023 21:48

SeulementUneFois · 25/08/2023 21:00

@Cornishclio

I think looking at this from the prism of a communist society would help.
As I mentioned in a different post, SAHM was not considered to be contributing to society under communism. Regardless of it being hard work or not.

If we consider a parallel - take a person who inherited wealth so they don't need to work, and don't. Communism would not view them as contributing to society.
Say this person loves gardening, and works extremely hard in their garden. Really hard work. But it's their garden, not a public garden etc that they work on.

Similarly to how the OP is a SAHM, to her own child - not a nursery worker.

Despite their hard work communism would not view either the SaHM or the person gardening above as contributing to society. Because all the hard work is for themselves, self contained.
Indeed in the case of the SAHM it's no different than what mammals do, for their offspring. Not for a society.

Show quote history

Except that’s a false equivalency- a bloke doing his garden doesn’t contribute much (except a small amount to the environment and biodiversity), but a sahm bringing up her child is working to produce a good member of society- the more positive/kind/intelligent/hard working/diligent etc people there are the better for all of us.

A sahm bringing up and educating and providing SALT and pt etc for a SEN child is saving the state a massive amount of money that they would otherwise have to spend on paying several carers.

Seagullchippy · 25/08/2023 21:49

SeulementUneFois · 25/08/2023 18:51

You see, I disagree with that.
Some people such as me think that by doing that you are just contributing to your DS (and yourself maybe).

Some people may think that as taking care of one's offspring is what mammals and birds do, it's purely an animal thing and nothing to do with contributing to society, which is a human thing solely.

Show quote history

Some people might think that way, but it's very odd and nonsensical. The purpose of human society is to maintain and nurture human (and hopefully non human as we're all part of an ecosystem) life and wellbeing; a major, essential part of that is taking care of offspring and of those who are elderly or disabled. Nurturing young and producing food and shelter are the most vital contributions.

Potatooooooooo · 25/08/2023 21:50

I have always worked full time while
raising children, but can sum this one up in one sentence - your MIL is a Bitch.

Seagullchippy · 25/08/2023 21:52

Threenow · 25/08/2023 21:42

I don't live in the UK, and have never heard all this criticism of SAHMs that there is on MN. It's nothing to do with anyone else whether or not a woman returns to work, or stays home with her child. I can't help but wonder sometimes if all this "oh, but you aren't contributing ......" is simply envy.

It's a huge antifeminist backlash, undermining the importance and value of what's considered 'women's' work.

Warriormum1 · 25/08/2023 21:52

According to the University of Sheffield, unpaid carers save the UK government £162 billion, yes, you read that right - £162 BILLION per year!
https://www.homecareinsight.co.uk/unpaid-carers-save-the-government-162bn-per-year/#:~:text=Each%20year%20unpaid%20carers%20save,the%20NHS%20during%202020%2D21.
But hey, mothers who stay at home to look after their disabled and special needs children are not contributing to society! 😂😂
As a full time carer to my severely disabled ds, whenever anyone asks me what I "do". I reply, "I keep another human being alive, what do you do?"
Sadly there are some very outdated and ignorant attitudes around about what constitutes "contributing to society".

Seagullchippy · 25/08/2023 21:56

PoliticallyIncorrectHitchling · 25/08/2023 20:39

How is you looking after your child and claiming benefits contribute to society? I dont get that

Show quote history

It sounds like you're suggesting that disabled people aren't part of society? That providing the care they need doesn't count as a contribution to society?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 25/08/2023 21:57

Are you sure you understood it right when she said about not contributing? Maybe she just meant to the family income?

Also, you shouldn't have to drag someone else down to make your point - you either ignore her sniping or stand your ground on how your set up works for your family.

Using her own dd as a comparison to show how you are "better" was a ridiculous step to take!

Ravaged · 25/08/2023 22:01

It’s also worth noting that CA is a taxable benefit.

upsidedownandturnaround · 25/08/2023 22:34

Freepo · 25/08/2023 20:22

Society owes a massive debt of gratitude to caters who are paid fuck all for the heroic efforts they make looking after the vulnerable, which saves society a fortune.

Do what’s right for your child OP and ignore these bitchy comments from your family. Berating the mother of a young SEN child for not working is unbelievable.

This ^

upsidedownandturnaround · 25/08/2023 22:44

JemimaTiggywinkles · 25/08/2023 21:34

He wasn’t there but he’s going to see MIL tomorrow so has said he’s going to be speaking to her as he’s not happy.

That's good. Please agree between yourselves that you never, ever have to justify your parenting choices to his family. He shouldn't even start on about the various classes, because that feeds their idea that they have a right to question your choices. They don't. They deserve no explanation whatsoever. They deserve a "how dare you question our choices or suggest we have contributed to DDs ASD?!"

Ignore the dickheads on this thread too. Contribution to society comes in many forms. Ime, those who earn the most money are very rarely those I'd choose to have in my ideal society.

Perfectly put ^

PineappleYikes · 25/08/2023 22:55

Could you work when your partner is looking after dc? An evenings/weekends job.

Ravaged · 25/08/2023 22:58

PineappleYikes · 25/08/2023 22:55

Could you work when your partner is looking after dc? An evenings/weekends job.

Why should she?! She didn’t post asking for suggestions about when she could do paid work did she?

Gunpowder · 25/08/2023 23:12

It makes me so sad to think that there is a prevailing train of thought that the only contribution to society worth making is an economic one. We’ve gone backwards.

HateLongCovid · 25/08/2023 23:42

Gunpowder · 25/08/2023 23:12

It makes me so sad to think that there is a prevailing train of thought that the only contribution to society worth making is an economic one. We’ve gone backwards.

Yes this Confused

MidnightOnceMore · 25/08/2023 23:48

PoliticallyIncorrectHitchling · 25/08/2023 20:39

How is you looking after your child and claiming benefits contribute to society? I dont get that

Show quote history

Each person is a member of society, by caring for a child you are caring for a member of society. This is a contribution to the future health of society.

PoliticallyIncorrectHitchling · 26/08/2023 07:16

Seagullchippy · 25/08/2023 21:56

It sounds like you're suggesting that disabled people aren't part of society? That providing the care they need doesn't count as a contribution to society?

Show quote history

Where did I say that? I said that the OP claims to contribute but she isnt paying taxes etc so not contributing to society

LadyBird1973 · 26/08/2023 07:37

It doesn't matter if sil is working and paying tax - if she takes out more than she pays in, she's costing the taxpayer money. Very few people are net contributors when it comes down to it.

Years ago I worked out how much tax dh and I would pay and how much we could claim back if we earned his salary between us, rather than him being a sole earner. Turned out the state was better off with him earning all our income. So its not always cut and dried that sah is more expensive to the state. So much is variable according to individual earnings/outgoings.

A sahm to a child with additional needs is not the same as a person claiming benefits, who could easily work, but chooses not to.

Your mil and sil sound like total bitches. I'd stop seeing them tbh - life's too short!

jgw1 · 26/08/2023 07:43

ImNotdrainingsociety · 25/08/2023 18:47

And my contribution to society is doing my best for my child with SEN till reception age

Show quote history

Stick at it. Your support for your DC is far more valuable than a few more pounds on GDP.

LizzieSiddal · 26/08/2023 07:44

A generation ago women who were NOT SAHMs were being told they were awful and society would go to the dogs because they weren’t at home looking after their children, H and home.

Don’t worry about anyone else’s opinion regarding what you do for your family because women and mums in general will get the blame, whatever they do.