I cost the taxpayer less but that’s not good enough ?!

[ImNotdrainingsociety]

Had a family event descend into an argument today because nobody liked my facts.

SIL has a dc the same age as mine (3)

She works and gets 85% of her nursery fees paid (it’s really expensive)

I am a sahm and get some UC as I’m a carer but my UC is less than her 85% nursery cost help …..MIL had been moaning about me not working how ‘it won’t help dc problems you know ‘ (SEN) and how ‘you’re not contributing’ but as soon as I pointed out the amounts after asking SIL what her nursery cost is and working out 85% I was apparently’acting like a bitch ’!!!

As far as I’m concerned neither of us is doing anything wrong but when attacked I simply started the facts as to what each of us ‘costs the taxpayer’ as they kept going on at me !

Society owes a massive debt of gratitude to caters who are paid fuck all for the heroic efforts they make looking after the vulnerable, which saves society a fortune.

Do what’s right for your child OP and ignore these bitchy comments from your family. Berating the mother of a young SEN child for not working is unbelievable.

Don't get into it with them, don't give them the satisfaction of thinking you owe them a rationale. You have made the best decision you feel was available to your family - that's what most of us do in life.

Birds and mammals, more often than not, push the ‘disabled’ offspring and the runts out of the nest. If not, they just fail to feed them adequately until they die of starvation. Thank goodness some people, such as me, see the value of parenting to society.

Where is your husband in all of this? Does he work?

You’re not contributing as you don’t work, but that’s not a criticism, you have a child that has complex needs so it’s completely fine that you have chosen to care for them full time instead of working and using childcare.

And OP contributes to society by bringing up her child.
Both choices are equally valid.

£76 a week carers allowance to care for someone 35 hours plus I think the taxpayers are getting a bargain however should they wish to pay someone the going rate for childcare they can do that too they can get bitten kicked scratched jumped on chase them to stop them dying oooh let's not forget the night time care because my ds is relentless day and night so I can sleep I would need someone overnight too because I've got to pay those taxes haven't I so day and night care 365 days of the year....might cost a "bit" more than £76 a week plus my £10 Christmas bonus

How is you looking after your child and claiming benefits contribute to society? I dont get that

@Crossstich both OP and her SIL are bringing up children. It's pretty offensive to suggest that a working mother who uses nursery services is not bringing up her child 🤔

What did DH say when this was happening?

Tbh, SIL and MIL sound like absolutely horrible people who only value people on the basis of their financial contribution (much like a number of people in this thread).

I'd refuse to see them again. Having a go about the "contribute to society" bullshit would have been bad enough. But saying your DD has SEN because of your parenting decisions is beyond awful and I'd keep DD away from that toxic shit as much as possible.

Yes dh works full time

@maidmarianne

I disagree, and I have lived in a communist country. There was no concept of SAHM under communism as this was not seen as contributing to society.
Society is something human, that humans have built to inter-help each other, whether in a capitalist or command and control (as under communism) economy.
The farmer produces food for many while the shoemaker makes shoes for many. Hence the interrelationship - at a grand scale,- society.

A SAHM purely takes care of her offspring, no different to any mammal. Completely self contained, and definitely not seen as contributing to society in communism.

@applesandmares @noctiscaelum @MorePressureMoreRelease

The OP is contributing. Even financially. It may or may not be more than the SIL’s contribution but it is far more complicated than no job = no contribution.

For SIL the equation goes
tax plus national insurance
minus
child benefit plus (any legacy child tax credit or UC equivalent) plus 85% of childcare fees plus (the value of any workplace tax free transport schemes/pension contributions/etc)
equals an amount that might be slightly positive in the state’s favour or slightly negative in the SIL’s favour

For OP the equation goes
the massively high cost of specialist childcare for say 11 hours per day (or 85% of that if you want to be picky) plus the cost of OT/SALT/physio etc training and availability for someone other than the OP to do that daily
minus
the pittance of carer’s allowance plus (any UC/legacy child tax credit uplift to that)
equals an amount that might well be positive in the state’s favour when you consider that Carers allowance works out at less than minimum wage on a 40 hour week, never mind 55.

Also bear in mind that any UC uplift the OP receives to her carers allowance will be subject to deductions on the basis of her partner’s salary even though it is supposed to be a ‘wage’ that the OP is earning through her care.

He wasn’t there but he’s going to see MIL tomorrow so has said he’s going to be speaking to her as he’s not happy.

They seem to have decided that I’m not socialising dd and that’s why she has ‘the issues’ (ASD) that she has !!! That she spends all her time with me and that’s not good for development 🙄 they don’t even know how we go to classes, sensory sessions , SALT etc

I love all this high handed 'contributing to society' rhetoric here 😁 Like we are chipping in to some socialist utopia but op is dodging chores. Meanwhile the number of junk jobs - the fruitless dedication to busyness for its own sake and contributing nothing to society, is at an all time high. Presumably posters here would be as equally scathing - unless its just about the tax return afterall?

Ah good old Mumsnet. The place where mums put down other mums and devalue the work of being a mother.

Right?

I was not a SAHM but they are being really disingenuous by suggesting you don't contribute. As you don't pay NI or tax then I guess financially and economically you are not contributing to GDP or to the tax revenues but your contribution in caring for an SEN child is hard work and hopefully benefits your family as a whole. None of their business really so long as you and your husband are ok with it.

Maybe the SAHM that went on holiday had a high earning partner. Even if she didn't there is no rule that those on benefits can't go on holiday.

The way things are these days, some parents can't afford both to work because of how expensive nursery fees are so it's easier and cheaper if one stays home.
It's completely none of their business on how you chose to live your life, nothing worse than in laws that are so judgemental and not supportive.

@Cornishclio

I think looking at this from the prism of a communist society would help.
As I mentioned in a different post, SAHM was not considered to be contributing to society under communism. Regardless of it being hard work or not.

If we consider a parallel - take a person who inherited wealth so they don't need to work, and don't. Communism would not view them as contributing to society.
Say this person loves gardening, and works extremely hard in their garden. Really hard work. But it's their garden, not a public garden etc that they work on.

Similarly to how the OP is a SAHM, to her own child - not a nursery worker.

Despite their hard work communism would not view either the SaHM or the person gardening above as contributing to society. Because all the hard work is for themselves, self contained.
Indeed in the case of the SAHM it's no different than what mammals do, for their offspring. Not for a society.

Next time mil starts on this you could say

”do you know what you’re absolutely right, I’m going to call work and start back next week. Is anyone free to take Dd to her salt appointment on Monday and her asd-friendly group on Tuesday each week? I’ll get nursery booked but someone will need to do the 3 weeks settling in period. Whose free? Also, dh, please could you start cooking every night and also either do all of the washing or all of the cleaning? And just so you know we won’t be able to visit at weekends anymore because we’ll be focusing on supporting dd’s needs more intently as we aren’t with her in the week……”

But then im a bitch 🤣

Jealousy, pure and simple.

More fool them, life is too short to waste working if you don’t need/want to, and you putting you daughter first is admirable imho.

OP isn’t out of work because she sees it as ‘wasting life’; she’s out of work because she’s caring for a disabled child. Don’t make it sound like carers get the easy way out and are doing it because they’re work shy.

@AintnocasseopoeiainWasingtonHeights not sure why I'm tagged in that 🤔 I've never said OP isn't contributing - I was questioning whether or not she was right in her stated 'facts' about who was benefiting more from the tax payer, and wondering why she took that route or was surprised that saying that caused a reaction from the others.

If it was me, and my MIL was giving me grief, I'd ask her why she was more interested in what I was financially contributing to the state, than what I was materially contributing to her grandchild with complex needs. I'd also tell her that I wasn't interested in discussing it again. I wouldn't start totting up who gets what 🙃 none of that matters as long as everyone is doing what they can to support their families!

Except we all have to live in society with all the other people… anyone who is bringing up a child to be a positive force in the future is contributing to society.

Mothers/feathers/nursery workers/teachers etc, we need as many well rounded individuals as possible.

@applesandmares because I was showing how the OP might be correct in her facts, and why explaining it that way is reasonable.

I think people who don’t need to do care work for relatives and who have never looked into carers allowance don’t often understand the way it is treated as employment- it’s taxable, despite the hourly rate being laughable- and it really feels like a kick in the teeth if you are in a position where you have to go from a £40k+ a year job to an effective rate of about £2 per hour for what is harder work.