Page 18 | Lucy Letby - new thread

anonymousamy · 2023-08-21T21:23:22+00:00

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here. I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 12:51

@Taketurn

Do you think evidence of racism is something that can just be pulled out of an envelope or something?

Well, yes, there does have to be evidence of racism or a racist motive before people cry "racism."

CountryStore · 22/08/2023 12:51

x2boys · 22/08/2023 12:48

Fair enough but Lucy Letby was a band five.nurse no disrespect to band five nurses ,I wss one for years ,but it's quite low down in the hierarchy of the NHS,she had no.power over other staff.

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Yes, agree with this. The usual attitude to bamd 5 is like it or lump it. If LL is on the psychopathy spectrum, this would presumably explain how she was able to manipulate the managers into getting the consultants to apologise to her etc?

theDudesmummy · 22/08/2023 12:53

The names of the babies that I have seen seemed mostly quite typical "British names". Only eight were published though, so I have not seen all of them. I don't think there has been any suggestion at any stage that LL herself had a racist motive, just suggestions that her race may have been a factor in how she was perceived as so "normal" and incapable of doing what she did. (I have no idea if it was).

Taketurn · 22/08/2023 12:53

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 12:51

@Taketurn

Do you think evidence of racism is something that can just be pulled out of an envelope or something?

Well, yes, there does have to be evidence of racism or a racist motive before people cry "racism."

ooooo wouldn't the world be a much better place then for minorities if that were the case....You right, you are very ill informed. Smh.

Surely2023IsTheYearForMyRainbowBaby · 22/08/2023 12:53

Why would she refuse to attend her hearing IF she was innocent!!

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 13:00

@Taketurn

Why so angry? If you're going to cry "racism" then yeah, you need to evidence it, like you would anything else. You can't just make a blanket statement to fit your own narrative. Same applies to any accusation and to brand a process or person "racist" you need facts to back that up. But you know that already right? Smh

Sunflowers20 · 22/08/2023 13:01

Can anyone explain why there weren't any defence witnesses? The only one was the plumber who was about as far removed from a medical expert as possible.

No family or friends as character witnesses (assuming these are allowed - I'm not sure how it works) and/or to give evidence about her mental status or how she was pre/post the incidents.

No colleagues or previous colleagues. Was this because people were afraid to be seen to support her?

No attempt to get a medical expert in to defend on some of the incidents e.g. one of the babies had numerous serious desaturations previously that LL hadn't been there for, other babies had shown mottling prior to LL involvement etc.

Who has decided not to seek this sort of witness? Would that be LL or the defence lawyer?

I'm not saying she's not guilty, I'm just confused as there always seem to be expert witnesses called for the defence even when someone is clearly guilty.

BIossomtoes · 22/08/2023 13:02

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 12:51

@Taketurn

Do you think evidence of racism is something that can just be pulled out of an envelope or something?

Well, yes, there does have to be evidence of racism or a racist motive before people cry "racism."

Of course there doesn’t. That’s nonsensical.

crocsaremybf · 22/08/2023 13:03

@BIossomtoes the investigation would have started much earlier if LL was from a different ethnic/class. As I've mentioned before, even as a patient in the NHS, it you are a white middle class patient you will get listened to more as opposed to a patient from a different class and ethnic background.

Marmite17 · 22/08/2023 13:04

I honestly can't see how race comes into this, seems completely irrelevant

Taketurn · 22/08/2023 13:05

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 13:00

@Taketurn

Why so angry? If you're going to cry "racism" then yeah, you need to evidence it, like you would anything else. You can't just make a blanket statement to fit your own narrative. Same applies to any accusation and to brand a process or person "racist" you need facts to back that up. But you know that already right? Smh

Whose angry? I replied to your comment as you did to mine.
Why are YOU angry?
Again, you are very ill informed if you think racism is something you can easily find evidence for or something you can just "prove". But off course you wouldn't understand so no point going back and forth with you.

BeggyMitchell · 22/08/2023 13:05

CurlewKate · 22/08/2023 12:26

Letby is a very traditional English Rose type. Many of the "she really doesn't look the type" comments are consciously or unconsciously influenced by this. Dr Jayaram is non white. It's easy to see how this might have influenced the process.

I wouldn't say 'Rose' I'd agree with English-looking though.

Orangebadger · 22/08/2023 13:06

@x2boys she was a band 6 nurse. Not that it matters really, but not a band 5.

Bromptotoo · 22/08/2023 13:06

Jeez, no wonder threads on this get closed.

Once she was arrested it took until 2022 to get her to trial and the trial itself was of exceptional length. The jury were out for weeks and she was acquitted of some charges and they could not agree verdicts on several others.

However it looks now this was not a 'slam dunk' case of a murderer who's offending was blindingly obvious.

The inquiry will need to go through all the same stuff that was needed for a prosecution to stand up and loads more behind.

I suspect that, like the nearest similar case - Shipman, systems will be found failing and individuals careless and, in some cases, downright negligent. The hospital seems to have been more worried about its reputation than properly investigating the clutch of deaths.

On the other hand you can't call the police in to investigate unless/until there are grounds to do so. A staff member over whom there are questions about professional competence isn't a matter for the police.

BIossomtoes · 22/08/2023 13:06

crocsaremybf · 22/08/2023 13:03

@BIossomtoes the investigation would have started much earlier if LL was from a different ethnic/class. As I've mentioned before, even as a patient in the NHS, it you are a white middle class patient you will get listened to more as opposed to a patient from a different class and ethnic background.

You really can’t say that with any degree of credibility. The person who first suspected middle class, white Lucy Letby was middle class, white Stephen Brearley.

Dalekjastninerels · 22/08/2023 13:09

Surely2023IsTheYearForMyRainbowBaby · 22/08/2023 12:53

Why would she refuse to attend her hearing IF she was innocent!!

Because she wants to cause as much distress as possible; perhaps she thinks she will be in protected custody and safe. perhaps she is a raving lunatic, perhaps she is a psycho. Who knows?

Just pipe the hearing into her cell at Max volume for 7 days; make her suffer.

Marmite17 · 22/08/2023 13:15

Marmite17 · 22/08/2023 13:04

I honestly can't see how race comes into this, seems completely irrelevant

Or a separate topic. I fully believe that racism is alive and well, but have seen no evidence that the babies were not white. Even if they weren't, what difference would it make?
This is a one off attack by one person, so hardly genocide

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 13:18

@Taketurn

Again, you are very ill informed if you think racism is something you can easily find evidence for or something you can just "prove"

If someone makes an accusation of racism then, like any other accusation, it only carries any validity if there is evidence to prove it. It isn't always easy to produce evidence of racism or racist intent, I never disputed that. But there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the hospital executives' non-actions in the LL case were racially motivated, or that their failure to act was due to the same motivations. The same applies to the Doctors and Lead Consultants who brought concerns forward - they came from a mix of backgrounds and races. Nothing to do with race there either.

It's important to ground accusations of racism in evidence as this would prove the point. Without evidence it just becomes someone saying something because they want to pedal a certain narrative.

Marmite17 · 22/08/2023 13:25

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 13:18

@Taketurn

Again, you are very ill informed if you think racism is something you can easily find evidence for or something you can just "prove"

If someone makes an accusation of racism then, like any other accusation, it only carries any validity if there is evidence to prove it. It isn't always easy to produce evidence of racism or racist intent, I never disputed that. But there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the hospital executives' non-actions in the LL case were racially motivated, or that their failure to act was due to the same motivations. The same applies to the Doctors and Lead Consultants who brought concerns forward - they came from a mix of backgrounds and races. Nothing to do with race there either.

It's important to ground accusations of racism in evidence as this would prove the point. Without evidence it just becomes someone saying something because they want to pedal a certain narrative.

Agree

BIossomtoes · 22/08/2023 13:27

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 13:18

@Taketurn

Again, you are very ill informed if you think racism is something you can easily find evidence for or something you can just "prove"

If someone makes an accusation of racism then, like any other accusation, it only carries any validity if there is evidence to prove it. It isn't always easy to produce evidence of racism or racist intent, I never disputed that. But there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the hospital executives' non-actions in the LL case were racially motivated, or that their failure to act was due to the same motivations. The same applies to the Doctors and Lead Consultants who brought concerns forward - they came from a mix of backgrounds and races. Nothing to do with race there either.

It's important to ground accusations of racism in evidence as this would prove the point. Without evidence it just becomes someone saying something because they want to pedal a certain narrative.

Yup.

skinnytobe · 22/08/2023 13:29

Anythingbutsnow · 22/08/2023 09:09

It's strange that she didn't carry out any internet searches related to her actions, nothing dark or twisted. Or even medical searches to do with the effects her actions would produce. She wasn't on any forums with like minded people etc etc.

As a trained neonatal nurse she would have known the outcomes. I don't need to look up the devastating affect an air embolism would have. I've learnt it on the job and in my training as a QIS neonatal nurse.

theDudesmummy · 22/08/2023 13:32

The defence would definitely have had medical expert witnesses, in the same specialities as the prosecution witnesses most likely. They chose not to use this evidence, so presumably it was not supportive of their case/her plea.

crocsaremybf · 22/08/2023 13:32

@BIossomtoes it doesn't matter the background of the first whistleblower, it's the background of the person who is being accused. The person being accused comes with a natural immunity of any accusation due to her background again white middle class English rose. Btw, it's the hospital chiefs, the managers that have ignored this because she can't do wrong but another nurse from a different background would have been investigated hell of a lot more sooner.

loyalist · 22/08/2023 13:34

Nodeepdiving · 22/08/2023 12:02

I asked whether any statistical evidence was included, because there are some notorious miscarriages of justice due to incorrect probability calculations being used as evidence. I wasn't hinting at her being innocent, it was a question intended to be taken at face value. Quite aside from that, we're all allowed an opinion, you're not superior to people who doubt her guilt because you think her conviction is sound.

Just to be very clear: I am not questioning LL's guilt, I merely asked someone for more detailed information. Ya know, asking as a means of expanding one's knowledge.

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The Crown’s “star” witness was eviscerated by a Law Lord in a previous appeal case, the letby Judge ignored this completely, despite the defences request that evans be barred from the witness box, citing the Law Lord’s scathing dismissal of evan’s report and abilities, for this reason alone,amongst others, I believe a retrial will be granted on appeal.

loyalist · 22/08/2023 13:40

She wasn’t alone.