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Original poster

Lucy Letby - new thread

1000 replies

anonymousamy · 21/08/2023 22:23

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

OP posts:
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38
Panic71 · 22/08/2023 07:53

bluegreenandcoral · 22/08/2023 07:39

Of course the medical evidence is undeniable and I have no doubt she is guilty. But to me, the way she came across as a person seems within the realms of normal and so I do find it very hard to comprehend.

I don’t think it’s that shocking that she was searching patients on Facebook. I think it was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate but I expect plenty of people do it even though they shouldn’t.

I don’t think her bedroom was that unusual for a woman of her age/generation. Yes it was a bit immature and not to many people’s taste but nothing sinister about it.

I haven’t seen anything to indicate she was a loner, and she seems to have had a reasonably wide social circle. She was even a godparent.

I don’t think messaging colleagues for support after a hard shift is unusual at all, I’ve done it myself at times. And the affair with the married doctor is again unwise and irresponsible but I’ve seen or suspected many affairs (between completely inappropriate pairings!) during the time I’ve been working.

I don’t think going on holiday with your parents is that weird either in your early twenties, especially as she also went on holiday with friends.

The messages about her parents being suffocating have been widely quoted but from what I’ve seen it was just a passing mention, really not that significant or critical at all. Nothing compared to some of the things people say about their parents on here.

As for her photos, to me she just looks completely normal. I see nothing unusual at all. Young, attractive side of average, posing in the way people do in silly night out/holiday photos.

Again, the medical evidence seems irrefutable so I can’t doubt that she is guilty. But I also can’t relate to people who can look at her see a serial child murderer because my brain just doesn’t compute it.

I agree with this.
There must be few cases where a person is convicted with circumstantial evidence but the notes, the record keeping at her home and the shift pattern all make it hard to believe it wasn’t her. The deaths were proven to be as a result of intentional harm and even LL did agree with this. I’d be interested to hear what her defence team think personally rather than professionally.

florizel13 · 22/08/2023 07:55

Traceyislivid · 21/08/2023 23:15

I find the dynamics between her and her parents strange and wonder if any of her behaviours could stem from this?

They did appear to be quite overbearing. One example is that LL apparently had a conversation with a doctor who was thinking about working in New Zealand and she told him she could never do that as it would devastate her parents and she'd feel too guilty. If that's true I wonder if her parents' apparent over-protectiveness had a bearing on things. Or conversely whether they saw something in her that made them very protective of her.

Inkpotlover · 22/08/2023 07:55

Janieforever · 22/08/2023 07:44

Personally I don’t get the whole she looks so normal thing. I genuinely can’t grasp what her appearance has to do with it. I always thought she could be guilty or not, her appearance is irrelevant to me.

I mean what does a serial killer look like? Rose west?harold shipman? They all look like normal folks. Most people have seen images of murderers, inc those who torture and kill their own children, they all look normal. Appearance is irrelevant.

I am stunned anyone genuinely thinks you can either tell a murderer by their appearance or even it has remotely anything to do with it.

Agree. Rose West only appears evil to us now because we know what she did. I remember at the the time people thinking that this mumsy/frumpy mouse-like woman couldn’t possibly be a mass murderer until they realised she was.

Panic71 · 22/08/2023 07:56

Namechange2222238858 · 22/08/2023 07:32

Might be a stupid question but why don’t hospital rooms have CCTV? Surely that would remove any doubt that exists in cases like this and potentially act as a deterrent?

These were asked for but didn’t happen according to the doctor on Panorama. :(

Inkpotlover · 22/08/2023 07:59

Panic71 · 22/08/2023 07:53

I agree with this.
There must be few cases where a person is convicted with circumstantial evidence but the notes, the record keeping at her home and the shift pattern all make it hard to believe it wasn’t her. The deaths were proven to be as a result of intentional harm and even LL did agree with this. I’d be interested to hear what her defence team think personally rather than professionally.

Show quote history

There was also the scans. They did a scan of one baby while fighting to resuscitate it - it showed up air bubbles that had been deliberately injected into its system and LL had been the only one in the room again.

Poivresel · 22/08/2023 08:09

@StoptheworldIwantogetoff I’m white so I can’t comment on your perspective.
However the other 3 child killers, Hindley, Allitt and West are also white, Hindley looks scary to me and West and Allitt look rather pathetic.
LL is the only attractive one out of the four.

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 22/08/2023 08:09

@Elvera2

Interesting from the court case but I don't understand the issue over pj or leisure wear? Some peoples sleep in tracksuits "lesuire" wear?

Interesting also about the similarities in her tone abd body language and how she comes across as plausible which confused him.

I've witnessed so many times how nutters can get away with so much due to tone and how they speak.

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 22/08/2023 08:10

I don't think she is attractive she looks bland to me

bellac11 · 22/08/2023 08:13

bluegreenandcoral · 22/08/2023 07:39

Of course the medical evidence is undeniable and I have no doubt she is guilty. But to me, the way she came across as a person seems within the realms of normal and so I do find it very hard to comprehend.

I don’t think it’s that shocking that she was searching patients on Facebook. I think it was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate but I expect plenty of people do it even though they shouldn’t.

I don’t think her bedroom was that unusual for a woman of her age/generation. Yes it was a bit immature and not to many people’s taste but nothing sinister about it.

I haven’t seen anything to indicate she was a loner, and she seems to have had a reasonably wide social circle. She was even a godparent.

I don’t think messaging colleagues for support after a hard shift is unusual at all, I’ve done it myself at times. And the affair with the married doctor is again unwise and irresponsible but I’ve seen or suspected many affairs (between completely inappropriate pairings!) during the time I’ve been working.

I don’t think going on holiday with your parents is that weird either in your early twenties, especially as she also went on holiday with friends.

The messages about her parents being suffocating have been widely quoted but from what I’ve seen it was just a passing mention, really not that significant or critical at all. Nothing compared to some of the things people say about their parents on here.

As for her photos, to me she just looks completely normal. I see nothing unusual at all. Young, attractive side of average, posing in the way people do in silly night out/holiday photos.

Again, the medical evidence seems irrefutable so I can’t doubt that she is guilty. But I also can’t relate to people who can look at her see a serial child murderer because my brain just doesn’t compute it.

So true

The evidence in this case is the medical evidence and the circumstances about her presence and actions on the ward

The bedroom picture was not evidence in the case.

All the other asides, like going on holiday or being close to her parents are things that apply to a huge number of people, look at the posts on here with people arguing that families holiday together etc

I dont work in health but in a local authority and I know that my colleagues look families up on facebook, although she seems to have 'stalked' them whatever that means (I thought stalking meant making contact with the person)

And same for texting and moaning about work and bigging herself up in those

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 22/08/2023 08:19

I also think it's very telling that the only time she showed emotion apparently was when the love interest appeared behind a screen.

I think like another pp mentioned she just did t care at all for these babies on any emotional level and they were a means to an end to get too him

FannyCann · 22/08/2023 08:22

OMG. I've just been on twitter and think her Mum must have joined. New account screaming her innocence.
Or maybe one of the posters who caused so much havoc in the last thread it was deleted.

ASDMumof2 · 22/08/2023 08:27

So glad she got whole life sentences. She deserves that as an absolute minimum.

And the law needs to be changed, how dare she not face the court for her sentence.

Lentilweaver · 22/08/2023 08:27

I am not so keen on blaming the parents. Parents can be great and kids still turn out terrible.

126daystillchristmas · 22/08/2023 08:30

ASDMumof2 · 22/08/2023 08:27

So glad she got whole life sentences. She deserves that as an absolute minimum.

And the law needs to be changed, how dare she not face the court for her sentence.

I don’t think it matters - she will find out her sentence eventually. Plus it shows she was probably unhappy about it so maybe the families can take some comfort from that knowing she probably felt upset/scared whatever it was that made her refuse to go.

User98866 · 22/08/2023 08:36

I think it was a compulsion for her. She became addicted to the drama and stress of the situations she created much like someone might become addicted to shopping or gambling. Then there was the added factor of the married doctors attention. I don’t think she’s a psychopath. I think she’s probably emotionally very immature, stunted by overbearing parents. Although I feel incredibly sorry for her family. What I can’t fathom thought is how she started in the 1st place. I can understand nurses maybe becoming a bit numbed to awful things and death. But it’s not like baby’s deaths were common place on the ward. What on Earth tipped her over from just being a weird grief vulture to actually causing the grief? She reminds me slightly of the killer nurse Jane Toppan who was by all accounts a very good nurse, caring and ‘jolly’ in her personality. She got a thrill from killing and had a God complex. I think it’s more shocking when women show these behaviours as we think of them as typically male.

HappiDaze · 22/08/2023 08:46

Maybe she was harming the babies for a while then accidentally killed one and got the attention she craved and just carried on killing and harming.

I suppose that's why serial killers keep going till they get caught.

We'll never really know I suppose because I doubt she knows why herself

Crowfinch · 22/08/2023 08:47

User15387500 · 22/08/2023 07:48

It's a bit offensive that you are saying that she looks so normal, are you saying that people that for some reason or another don't look normal are more likely to be murderers

I think it's more that we're conditioned from childhood to expect 'bad' people to look bad- the wolf; the old hag; the giant; the monster; the other. It's not rational, but On some survival level, we're alert to anything out of the ordinary, because that's what keeps us safe. We may not even realise we're doing it, but there must be an unconscious bias at play there.

guinnessguzzler · 22/08/2023 08:48

@User98866 I have been pondering how it all started too. I wondered whether it could be she experienced similar circumstances, ie a fairly stable baby unexpectedly becoming very unwell, perhaps even around a milestone date, either through natural causes or even through her own error, and then became compulsive about almost recreating those circumstances again. Perhaps to gain back control, or for the attention if she realised she liked it. Then you add in the Dr and it's another reason, in her eyes, to keep doing it.

Panic71 · 22/08/2023 08:48

Snowflake2023 · 22/08/2023 07:37

I have to say I agree with this. But I'd go further. Letby is a representation of what a lot of parents strive to achieve for their child, so the realisation that the ideal can lead to this is incomprehensible.

Most parents spend their lives working towards getting their child through school, onto university, into a good job, on to the housing ladder and happy in a good social life. This is literally the pattern that modern parenting follows. Its ingrained in all of us and 99% of the mums on here are doing it now. We as a society tick off these milestones by Facebook posts, school pictures and graduation photos, and once the tick list of childhood life achievements is done we can feel that we've done well as parents and done our job.

Then something like this happens and it smashes that paradigm into pieces. We are confused and unsettled. Many posts on here confirm that thinking. The comments that she looked so normal on Facebook confirms our societal assumptions of what success and happiness looks like. Rarely do we look beyond the surface. We don't consider for one moment that this is a mask and achievement of these miles stones does not erase the possibility that our children could have the capacity to be monstrous.

I think it does hold a mirror up, and whilst i would agree that if she had been a migrant worker there would have been more acceptance than disbelief, it goes beyond racial or aesthetic profiling. I think it speaks to our values as a society and reminds us that our formulaic social patterns built on social media perceptions are just myths and life is much darker and more complex.

Show quote history

Couldn’t agree more. It’s terrifying

Janieforever · 22/08/2023 08:48

User98866 · 22/08/2023 08:36

I think it was a compulsion for her. She became addicted to the drama and stress of the situations she created much like someone might become addicted to shopping or gambling. Then there was the added factor of the married doctors attention. I don’t think she’s a psychopath. I think she’s probably emotionally very immature, stunted by overbearing parents. Although I feel incredibly sorry for her family. What I can’t fathom thought is how she started in the 1st place. I can understand nurses maybe becoming a bit numbed to awful things and death. But it’s not like baby’s deaths were common place on the ward. What on Earth tipped her over from just being a weird grief vulture to actually causing the grief? She reminds me slightly of the killer nurse Jane Toppan who was by all accounts a very good nurse, caring and ‘jolly’ in her personality. She got a thrill from killing and had a God complex. I think it’s more shocking when women show these behaviours as we think of them as typically male.

I think trying to diagnose her and give motive is pointless. It will take the highly trained years to do so. It will not be a simple process.

the only thing I would comment on is that to deliberately inflict grievous harm on a baby and then stay to watch their suffering and the parents suffering, to be excited by it even, is a coldness and evil beyond all words.

To keep records, mementoes, to stalk the family during their suffering, to need to be told repeatedly to leave the room after the event, to fail to kill and try again, is an indescribable level of inhumanity.

what this woman did is heinous to the level of being incomprehensible to most people.

her crimes are some of the worst society has seen, hence her sentencing.

HappiDaze · 22/08/2023 08:48

I also think that we can not comprehend that someone could commit such heinous crimes, let alone someone so 'beige'

Wheresthebeach · 22/08/2023 08:49

User98866 · 22/08/2023 08:36

I think it was a compulsion for her. She became addicted to the drama and stress of the situations she created much like someone might become addicted to shopping or gambling. Then there was the added factor of the married doctors attention. I don’t think she’s a psychopath. I think she’s probably emotionally very immature, stunted by overbearing parents. Although I feel incredibly sorry for her family. What I can’t fathom thought is how she started in the 1st place. I can understand nurses maybe becoming a bit numbed to awful things and death. But it’s not like baby’s deaths were common place on the ward. What on Earth tipped her over from just being a weird grief vulture to actually causing the grief? She reminds me slightly of the killer nurse Jane Toppan who was by all accounts a very good nurse, caring and ‘jolly’ in her personality. She got a thrill from killing and had a God complex. I think it’s more shocking when women show these behaviours as we think of them as typically male.

I think you’re right about addicted to the drama. I also think the NHS system of layers of managers needs rethinking. The old wears sister system no doubt had its disadvantages but it’s mind boggling that the consultants were dismissed and threatened the way they were.

Wheresthebeach · 22/08/2023 08:49

Wears? Ward!

40andlovelife · 22/08/2023 08:50

Mind blowing that it all seems to have been pre planned, putting herself through nurse training and taking a post with the most vulnerable of babies. I do think that some people are born wired wrong and this results in what we call evil

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