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So what happens when we're all old and we don't own our homes?

514 replies

user8665410 · 20/08/2023 09:31

Genuine question.

I'm a millennial with no hopes of ever buying a property despite earning a decent income.

There are many in my situation.

What happens when we're all in our 70s, 80s and 90s - which we will be because medical technology keeps letting us live longer - and no longer able to work. Where will we live? Who will support us? Will we just get kicked out of our homes we've been renting for (potentially) decades??

My current rent is £2,585.00, the State won't be supporting that I'm sure.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
JenniferBooth · 20/08/2023 17:01

Wanting to put immobile people into blocks of flats is insanity How quickly Grenfell has been forgotten

Kendodd · 20/08/2023 17:10

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 20/08/2023 16:59

Imagine being 70/80 odd and having to pack up your stuff every year or two. Find a new home somewhere safe and accessible, find a landlord that will take you on benefits.
getting all the boxes, packing your stuff up, sorting a van and then getting settled and unpacked again.
arranging post redirection and all that.

only to have to do it again in a few years time

I think this would be worse with young children in tow. Disrupting their friendships and schooling constantly, never feeling their home was actually secure.

JenniferBooth · 20/08/2023 17:13

I dont think its a matter of top trumps. It would be destructive and stressful for both. More likely to cause a stroke or heart attack in an older person

Zebedee55 · 20/08/2023 17:22

I'm a pensioner, don't own my home, pay my full SH rent, and get on with it. No real problem.

Zebedee55 · 20/08/2023 17:29

Babyroobs · 20/08/2023 10:35

The problem with this type of set up is the service charges which benefits often won't cover all of. They can be extortionate.

They are still cheaper than private rentals, and if income in low enough, HB covers all or part of it anyway.

Zebedee55 · 20/08/2023 17:34

AcesBaseballbat · 20/08/2023 11:05

I don't live in an expensive area, unless by "expensive area" you mean just anywhere near London.

Woolwich is a violent shithole in Zone 4, nowhere near central London.

My job/career physically cannot be done outside of London.

If your solution is just "no one except billionaires should live in London, period, because living in a city should be only for the ultra wealthy elite, and everyone in London should move to some random village in the northeast and drive up property prices there" then that really is not a solution.

Yeah, I don't get it with Woolwich. I had to sell my dads house there when he died, and I was gobsmacked for what it sold for.

All about the river, DLR, good main line links to London and Crossrail.

Silly money, both for buying and renting.🙄

TheHateIsNotGood · 20/08/2023 17:35

I just wish the blame games would cease as they're so counter-productive to everyone.

The fact is that younger, say mid 30s, people have far more difficulty putting a roof over their head than any person ever had to who is now in their 60s.

Without any other variable involved, that fact alone is true; says 61 year old in a few hours me.

SusiePevensie · 20/08/2023 17:37

Terrible for the economy too because people can't move to where there are jobs.

PriamFarrl · 20/08/2023 17:41

We are always being told on MN that we are obsessed with home ownership in the UK and should learn from ‘Europe’ (this being the same homogeneous place, that isn’t loads of different countries, where they actually like children and all the women are thin and beautiful). So what happens in Europe then?

(BTW when I was starting out I was unable to afford to live where I grew up as all the houses had been bought be Londoners as holiday homes so I left everyone and everything I knew and moved to a city. When it became clear that I couldn’t afford to buy in that city I moved to another town where I could afford to buy. I am happy to report that the uk doesn’t consist of just London and tiny villages with just one bus but there are also large town where housing is affordable and there is public transport)

TheHateIsNotGood · 20/08/2023 17:43

frippu · 20/08/2023 15:52

@TheHateIsNotGood for many couples it can be up to 1m

That is truly obscene is all i can say.

Tiqtaq · 20/08/2023 17:48

Either you will pay your rent from your occupational pension or you will have to keep working beyond retirement age.

Alternatively throw yourself at the mercy of the benefits system. They're unlikely to fund £2.8k a month rent though so likely you'd have to move somewhere cheap, maybe a housing association property or small flat in a cheap area.

The property market is hugely dysfunctional but no political party seems willing to tackle the long standing issues. It's a mess. Nobody wants to spend a lifetime living in expensive and insecure private rentals.

EffortlessDesmond · 20/08/2023 17:57

FWIW, our "success" started with working overseas in our 20s in the 1980s. We left, like most migrants, with nothing and a suitcase and came back having saved some money. A nephew is currently doing the same.

WowIsThatTzatzkiDip · 20/08/2023 18:00

Yep! Very tough times ahead but what's that saying again...oh yes:

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good. times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.”

Southerners should seriously consider relocating up North where there is a dearth of resources as London holds a significant portion of wealth.

TheThingIsYeah · 20/08/2023 18:04

EffortlessDesmond · 20/08/2023 17:57

FWIW, our "success" started with working overseas in our 20s in the 1980s. We left, like most migrants, with nothing and a suitcase and came back having saved some money. A nephew is currently doing the same.

...Working all day
For a packet of pay
And send a little back to the wife
Still you keep a little here
Just to keep you in beer
That's livin' alright...

TheHateIsNotGood · 20/08/2023 18:06

The only solution is we need to die earlier, although ahem, many other ideas not involving reducing our life expectancy euthanasia should be considered first.

There really is a chance with Gove's ripping up of the current planning target-based housing framework to make, suggest and help evolve local planning so that any new homes built suit the local needs.

Ergo, for those of us that are just about old enough to remember that we had so many more opportunities than the current younger generations do; it's up to us to get those smaller properties built so we can free up the already-built larger homes for the many that need them.

I care little what political party Gove represents, because this idea has merit.

JenniferBooth · 20/08/2023 18:06

Wow as long as they dont expect to work in hospitality

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/people/wigans-plushest-hotel-kilhey-court-is-to-house-asylum-seekers-4261135

EleanorLucyG · 20/08/2023 18:08

And people saying "if you can afford £2k+ in rent you can afford to buy" - first it's very weird to assume that someone paying £2.5k must be earning more than £100k. Sure, some might, but that's more than three times their annual rent.

Most people I know, the majority of their income goes on rent. I don't know why anyone would assume that renters must be earning pots and pots of money to the point less than a third of their income goes on rent

Picking up on this, unless things have drastically changed since I left London a decade ago, you wouldn't be accepted as a tenant unless you earned 3-4x the rent pcm. Maybe if you had a guarantor, but the guarantor would have to be in a similar situation ie able to demonstrate they could afford all their own living costs and your rent easily or they wouldn't be accepted as a guarantor.

The thing people mentioned about the back of mum and dad...it's true. If your parents rent and are oba low income, the benefits they're claiming drop drastically when their DC turns 18. Which could mean they can't afford the rent on their place, unless they charge their DC proper market rate rent. Either that or the DC moves out and the parents downsize. Anyone who lives in the family home, where the parent is subsidising them by paying the majority of rent and bills or if the parent owns the home so there is no rent only (by comparison to renting) a small mortgage, beyond the age of 18 is getting a massive amount of help just by being able to live in that situation.

Someone mentioned sheltered housing having extortionate service charges. It doesn't. Sheltered housing is what the council/housing association provides. You're thinking of retirement flats which are private ownership/rental and I agree could be problematic. The group blocks for young professionals with cinema room gym etc would also be problematic with service charges. Housing benefit isn't going to pay for the full rent and services on somewhere with all those extras.

OP if you want to have an understanding of your situation in the future. First get a pension forecast. This will tell you what your pension will be in retirement (if things carry on as they are today for you. If your life circumstances drastically changed so might your pension forecast). Next look up the Local Housing Allowance for your area, input the information needed as though you were your future self at retirement age. This will tell you what you'd be entitled to eg most probably a one bedroom property and it'll tell you the LHA rate for that (can't remember if it calculates it based on income and savings at this point or just tells you the maximum rate). Once you have the LHA rate and your pension forecast, go onto Entitled To website and input details for your future self at retirement, to see if you'd be entitled to any other benefits. That will give you a rough picture of what you personally would have as an income if you were of retirement age today. If you don't like the picture it paints, start working in another solution if you can.

FWIW I think people will end up living in shared accommodation in retirement and it could well be dire. I don't suppose many here remember or were affected by the housing benefit changes a decade or so ago. When they decided that anyone under 35 was only to be allowed the shared accommodation rate of housing benefit. Previously it was those under 25. As an example for someone I knew it resulted in the maximum LHA for a single person going from £80/wk to £53/wk leaving them with a shortfall of £140/pcm on their rent which had to come out of their jobseekers allowance of I think around £70/wk. The previous shortfall on their rent (which was above the maximum LHA) when LHA was paid at the one-bedroom rare was £20/pcm.

To put that into context further, house shares in the area were £3-400/pcm at that time for anything decent. Because people who aren't totally broke want things like internet, TV, heating on when it's cold etc. so the rent reflects that. I don't know what £53/wk would have got them, probably a mouldy room in a HMO in a rough part of town with arsehole neighbors.

HarrietJet · 20/08/2023 18:10

EleanorLucyG · 20/08/2023 18:08

And people saying "if you can afford £2k+ in rent you can afford to buy" - first it's very weird to assume that someone paying £2.5k must be earning more than £100k. Sure, some might, but that's more than three times their annual rent.

Most people I know, the majority of their income goes on rent. I don't know why anyone would assume that renters must be earning pots and pots of money to the point less than a third of their income goes on rent

Picking up on this, unless things have drastically changed since I left London a decade ago, you wouldn't be accepted as a tenant unless you earned 3-4x the rent pcm. Maybe if you had a guarantor, but the guarantor would have to be in a similar situation ie able to demonstrate they could afford all their own living costs and your rent easily or they wouldn't be accepted as a guarantor.

The thing people mentioned about the back of mum and dad...it's true. If your parents rent and are oba low income, the benefits they're claiming drop drastically when their DC turns 18. Which could mean they can't afford the rent on their place, unless they charge their DC proper market rate rent. Either that or the DC moves out and the parents downsize. Anyone who lives in the family home, where the parent is subsidising them by paying the majority of rent and bills or if the parent owns the home so there is no rent only (by comparison to renting) a small mortgage, beyond the age of 18 is getting a massive amount of help just by being able to live in that situation.

Someone mentioned sheltered housing having extortionate service charges. It doesn't. Sheltered housing is what the council/housing association provides. You're thinking of retirement flats which are private ownership/rental and I agree could be problematic. The group blocks for young professionals with cinema room gym etc would also be problematic with service charges. Housing benefit isn't going to pay for the full rent and services on somewhere with all those extras.

OP if you want to have an understanding of your situation in the future. First get a pension forecast. This will tell you what your pension will be in retirement (if things carry on as they are today for you. If your life circumstances drastically changed so might your pension forecast). Next look up the Local Housing Allowance for your area, input the information needed as though you were your future self at retirement age. This will tell you what you'd be entitled to eg most probably a one bedroom property and it'll tell you the LHA rate for that (can't remember if it calculates it based on income and savings at this point or just tells you the maximum rate). Once you have the LHA rate and your pension forecast, go onto Entitled To website and input details for your future self at retirement, to see if you'd be entitled to any other benefits. That will give you a rough picture of what you personally would have as an income if you were of retirement age today. If you don't like the picture it paints, start working in another solution if you can.

FWIW I think people will end up living in shared accommodation in retirement and it could well be dire. I don't suppose many here remember or were affected by the housing benefit changes a decade or so ago. When they decided that anyone under 35 was only to be allowed the shared accommodation rate of housing benefit. Previously it was those under 25. As an example for someone I knew it resulted in the maximum LHA for a single person going from £80/wk to £53/wk leaving them with a shortfall of £140/pcm on their rent which had to come out of their jobseekers allowance of I think around £70/wk. The previous shortfall on their rent (which was above the maximum LHA) when LHA was paid at the one-bedroom rare was £20/pcm.

To put that into context further, house shares in the area were £3-400/pcm at that time for anything decent. Because people who aren't totally broke want things like internet, TV, heating on when it's cold etc. so the rent reflects that. I don't know what £53/wk would have got them, probably a mouldy room in a HMO in a rough part of town with arsehole neighbors.

Were they long term unemployed?

Diyae · 20/08/2023 18:12

On an individual basis, people will make what choices they can within limited remits.

On a national basis this is going to be a huge problem unless we become a fully set up rentier economy with curbs on evictions and rent controls.

RudsyFarmer · 20/08/2023 18:14

Euthanasia will be readily available once the old person burden gets high enough.

CloudyMcCloudy · 20/08/2023 18:16

Do your parents own a property op?

LifeIsShitJustNow · 20/08/2023 18:16

RudsyFarmer · 20/08/2023 18:14

Euthanasia will be readily available once the old person burden gets high enough.

Lovely.

A country where you simply kill older people because they cost too much.
And you can wrap it up under the pretence that it’s their choice too.

A bit like Canada to be fair.

Looking forward to it - NOT

EleanorLucyG · 20/08/2023 18:22

HarrietJet · 20/08/2023 18:10

Were they long term unemployed?

The person affected by the housing benefit change? Yes, took them a couple of years to find a job. Poor health, but not enough to qualify for any extra benefits and no savings. A minimum wage earner with no prospect of that changing. I only knew them for a short while but I thought their situation was awful and it stuck in my mind.

I feel too for all those who expected to retire at 60 and who have also found themselves to be the wrong age when the rules changed. At least they have years to prepare for it though. That housing benefit change came in with I think it was 1yr notice. Being already in their 30s the person I knew decided to stay put and hope they got a job sooner than later

RudsyFarmer · 20/08/2023 18:25

LifeIsShitJustNow · 20/08/2023 18:16

Lovely.

A country where you simply kill older people because they cost too much.
And you can wrap it up under the pretence that it’s their choice too.

A bit like Canada to be fair.

Looking forward to it - NOT

Alzheimer’s and Dementia are putting the elderly into care homes for twenty years plus. With our lifestyles and diet making the potential for these illnesses to only get worse, what’s the alternative?

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