The Lucy Letby case could dismantle the NHS

[Purpletreesinmygarden]

NHS clinical employee of 25 yrs. Watched the news last night and was horrified, but sadly not surprised, at the managers’ responses- both those at the time of the deaths and now. These people are politicians at heart; they avoid taking any responsibility And are never held to account. Career -wise they only ever move sideways or up. Clinical staff who try to call them out get screwed. The senior drs on this unit knew what was going and yet were threatened and made to apologise. If you don’t work in the NHS please don’t think this this is an isolated incident…….whilst not necessarily on this scale and with quite such tragic consequences, this behaviour is rife in every hospital. Perhaps this case will finally bring some meaningful reform.

@WhisperingHi some of us have a very good Insight. Unfortunately just because things could be worse does not mean the current situation is right.
the NHS is a s* show.

And you think a private, profit motivated hospital will somehow be more transparent and open?!

Yeah, the list of private companies being like that isn't exactly a long one. Sadly it's human nature to avoid admitting problems. Look at other institutions with a history of coverups.

I think a start would be an independent data team in each hospital that analysed data looking for anomalies. But with the lack of funding and constant Tories bleating on about cutting non-clinical staff that is never going to happen.

I’m sure most of us have worked with people who don’t deserve a job, but rather than get rid of them out of the NHS, they are moved on to become someone else’s problem.

Oh and I do not agree with making it private - and I am a labour supporter.

Totally agree OP. I’ve name changed for this but I’m a nurse and a few years ago I raised concerns about a senior nurse. She was a bully - constantly had other staff in tears but on top of this, I saw her with my own eyes shredding documents (including drug cards and patient records) in order to get other nurses into trouble. I went to the manager and was more or less told I was easier to replace than she was due to her skills.

I left in the end and someone else raised concerns about her … she ended up being moved to a different area which was basically a promotion. She’s still going strong now. The NHS is a complete mess.

Absolutely not
I would like the keep the NHS but it needs an overhaul.

At least in private companies, incompetent and underperforming managers are let go. From my brief experience in the NHS, they’re moved elsewhere or else go on indefinite fully-paid sick pay.

Privatisation invariably never works out, plenty examples of failing services that used to be government run (and that's saying something as most weren't great beforehand). What the NHS needs is a decent government and experienced and actually knowledgeable people who aren't afraid to make big changes to it. I know with this government it's asking for the moon on a stick, but this should be what we are fighting for rather than for a private company who want to make money to be in charge.

@Banditqueen12 ”the envy of much of the rest of the world” is a low bar. And why do the NHS’s defenders always compare it to the healthcare system in the US rather than that in our neighbours such as France or Germany or the Nordic countries?

@BCCoach exactly and actually as much as Americans may favour our System. Their actual medical advances are fantastic. A condition in the UK with a 40 percent of survival at birth is something like 90 percent in the USA.
so their system is not all bad either.

When I was nursing I did a couple of years as management. I couldn't cope with how we couldn't sack or basically even say anything to incompetent, dangerous staff. You get called a bully and incident forms just disappear.

The urge to cover up is a culture issue
Imagine how it would be if the hospital was for profit?
The Netfiix "Captruing the iller nurse" looks at the US case
Two issues first the way the for profit hospitals reacted but also for the UK general public the underlying fear the female nurse had about not having health insurance.
The UK public can not afford to allow the NHS to become private.

Joe Public needs to be asking how to change the culture

The USA system is not the only alternative thank goodness. It is a terrible system with pretty poor outcomes considering the cost.
France and Spain have good health care, accessible to all, for just a little bit more cost. People pay according to their income.
I would be willing to pay a bit more tax if I knew it wouldn't disappear into a black hole of mismanagement.
Whistle blowers seem to be treated badly in every industry. I feel desperately sorry for the doctors in that hospital who tried to raise the alarm.

Does that statistic include those who have no insurance? I have seen documentaries about street clinics for very basic care, provided by volunteer medics, with huge queues of families who have no access to health care.

Yep totally agree. 24 years on the NHS. The wrong people have all the power and control now as is demonstrated clearly with this case. How can senior exec ignore 7 consultants about their concerns for the sake of the trusts reputation. Disgusting.

Absolutely vile how NHS money is wasted on managers and non clinical administrators, many of whom aren't qualified in any shape or form to preside over nurses or doctors or other HCPs. The salary of one of those wastes of space could be used to hire several nurses.
This is the NHS's problem of many years in that money is wasted on those managers and management consultants and HR consultants the daily rate of some of whom equals a nurse's monthly pay They contribute absolutely nothing, mostly having no relevant qualifications, management skills, or empathy.
This is what's been bringing NHS down on its knees, this nasty misuse of the budget.
I shit you not, those people often on 100,000 K or more have fuck all qualifications, medical, management or at all NHS specific and are sat there on their arses doing nothing all day or doing damage running a hospital or a department. Not medically qualified. Not managerially qualified, nothing.
A great job for psychopaths and free money. This has been destroying the NHS for years.

You do need administrators in hospitals. They can’t be staffed solely by medical professionals.

Are you saying hospitals shouldn't have any non clinical admin staff? Ridiculous. Many managers are qualified nurses and doctors, all should be regulated though in my opinion by some sort of body so they are held to account and cannot just move between Trusts for the management activity.

You see the problems in the public system How open would you be about risk in your job if your health care was 100% depending on you keeping your job?

Agree.

I used to work for a psychometric training company that used to provide training to NHS trusts. Every week we’d have a new batch of these people turn up to train and the training was all team building shite, literally standing around in car parks making marble runs out of cardboard tubes - the sort of stuff you get 8 year olds to do when they join a new class. It was sickening and embarrassing and I left after a short time.

I have since has the misfortune to develop very serious and rare autoimmune issues and have made several formal, justifiable complaints against my local hospital. I was misdiagnosed for 2 years and then effectively medically gaslit. Long complex story but the outcome was the trust closed ranks, accused me of effectively being some sort of troublemaker (when I even had the support of the specialist condition group in my complaint) and basically told me to go away- after they nearly killed me with their negligence, and would have done if I had not stood my ground and challenged them at the time (long story short they refused to give me a specific drug prior to a general anaesthetic that omitting it would have killed me due to a deficiency I have, I refused the surgery without it and was made to feel like I was a neurotic patient).

The NHS is in a terrible state.

I don’t see that was what was being said. For me it’s the salaries of these people. Ludicrously high and disproportionate to similar business roles.

And why do it's detractors never have a single good thing to say about it? There are just as many criticisms of those systems, but oddly people seem not capable of googling those faults and criticisms. Have a look at the cons here for Germany - and this is just one site https://visaguide.world/international-health-insurance/germany/

All sounds a bit familiar doesn't it? Long wait times for non-emergencies, rising costs, regional disaparities for access to services, bureaucratic administration systems.....

As I said, you have the option to walk - go get private health cover. And as for the health care professionals, doctors and so on who also think the NHS needs to go, well since there is a private sector in the UK, go there. Of course, whilst some high end professionals can and do, because they can make a very good living out of it, we all know why most don't go. Because for the most part the private sector does not offer anything like the generous terms of the NHS. Basic/statutory annual leave, poorer pensions, poorer sick leave etc., etc. But don't any of you recall exactly the same debates around care - it is so bad in the public sector, it's mismanaged, it'll be better in the private sector. If anyone wants a model of this brave new world of healthcare that some people think is great - for clients and for employees - take a very long, hard look at the care sector.

There are only one set of people who profit from private care / healthcare, and that is shareholders.

My Dad died in April this year at the hands of the NHS, he was failed badly and died alone and in pain. Trying to have a voice has been very difficult because you are met with brick walls and being fobbed off (CEO wrote me a fobbing off letter). Luckily I am a Nurse with over 25 years experience so I know exactly what I am talking about and now my complaint has been raised as a significant incident, I even had his Consultant contact me to thank me for raising my concerns. I am waiting for the review to take place. I have found they shut down on you and are not transparent and open like they should be, god help anybody who doesn't know the system like me who search for answers.

Which condition are you referring to?

I don't work in the NHS but have worked in other public sector industries.

Huge culture of cover ups & scapegoats sigh whistleblowers often getting frozen out. Do I think this will change anything? unfortunately no