Piano related: 8 year old son can't read music

[Italianasoitis]

I can't play an instrument, neither can my husband. Our 8 year old has been taking piano lessons since Year 1. I had a baby in the middle of this and for a while, practise went out the window. We resumed daily practise and in June, he did the prep test.

We live abroad and I don't know if that had anything to do with this, but the piano teacher always writes the numbers under the musical notes. When presented with music to read, he cannot play it. He learns everything by heart and plays like that.

His teacher thinks that reading the notes will come with time and the most important thing is that he had an ear for music and can play the tunes well once he knows them. I always have a feeling that her methods are a bit inconsistent (he doesn't follow a book, just sheets she sends home). Maybe this is OK, I really don't know!

My son also does Simply Piano ad an alternative for of piano practise and on the advice of another music teacher, we sometimes ask him to make up his own tunes to get a feel for composing. He seems to have an aptitude for it, but I feel like I'm trying to help him do his homework in another language!

Do you think he should be able to read music enough to just play what's in front of him, or will that come in time? How can we support him when we have no musical knowledge? Are there any red flags we should be looking out for in a teacher? I would consider changing her but I work in the school where she has her lessons so it might be a bit awkward without a really good reason!

Thanks

I’m a piano teacher. I get kids coming to me from other teachers who wrote all the finger numbers or letter names in and they can’t read a note.

early on, many pieces are in a “five finger position” where you plonk your thumb on a starting note and it stays there for the whole piece, you can then play fingers 1-5 as directed without reading the music at all.

Finger numbers can and should be written in selectively as an aid to unexpected or complex finger patterns. Writing them under every note, for every piece is an educational ‘red flag’.

simply piano unfortunately does not teach any form of technique and that causes big problems as you progress (or fail to!)

I’d recommend a new teacher.

It's pretty easy to learn to read music there's loads online like pianote you could do that alongside him ? Of course it's a lot easier to learn for a single note instrument than it is for the piano. I suppose that's why we learned the recorder all those years ago ;)

My DS is an adult now but he had piano lessons to grade 8 as a child/teenager and was reasonably good. His teacher wouldn't normally teach children younger than 7 as she felt that for the majority (not talking really talented children here obviously) progress was so slow much before this that it put more off than it encouraged. She said that she generally found that children who started at about 7 soon caught up with those who had been playing for 2 or 3 years longer, and if the children my son competed with at music festivals are anything to go by she was right in most cases. So I wouldn't judge progress made in 3 years from age 5 to 8 in the same way as the progress you'd expect from say 8-11. If he sticks at it I would expect him to progress far faster in the next 3 years than the last.
I would say at 8, DS could read music in a very basic way. He could say "that's an E" "that's worth one beat" etc but it was probably a year or two before he was more fluent in musical terminology and he was well into his teens before he could read music in the sense that he could look at sheet music and hear it in his head.
I think the main thing about learning anything as a child, music, dance, a sport or whatever, is enjoyment initially, but at some point fairly early on you do need to start learning proper technique and "the rules" of whatever it is, because if you want to develop the skill it's hard to unlearn bad habits. I know there are lots of successful rock/jazz/blues etc musicians who can't read music in the traditional way (though they may read other types of music eg rock guitarists often learn using tab) but there is no doubt in my mind that being able to read music opens more options, especially when it comes to playing with other people. So I think at 8 I would expect the basics to be being taught I think - names and values of the notes and meaning of the basic symbols etc.
My DS was quite reluctant to learn theory at first, he just wanted to play tunes he liked, so he did a bit of both. But as he got older and started having separate theory lessons his playing really took off and he realised he could play more of what he liked, better, because he understood more music theory. And sight reading practice went from being a hated chore to him realising it opened up masses more music to him. But he didn't grasp that at 8! It took years of slog to get to that stage and it wasn't all fun. But there was enough fun to keep him engaged, which I think is the key. Finding the balance can be tricky though. Have you discussed doing more theory with the teacher?

Please don't take this the wrong way... The most important thing is that he is enjoying learning and making progress but 4.5 years is a very long time to reach Grade 1. 1.5 years would be average. It could be that he just wasn't ready to start learning in Year 1. It could be that piano isn't the right instrument for him. It could be that the teacher isn't right for him or isn't a good teacher full stop. It could be that he isn't practicing very much or not practicing efficiently. It takes about 450 hours to get to grade 1. Although the worst thing you could do is push him into practicing more and turn learning music into a chore.

I would guess that the numbers are to show him the correct finger to use. I don't think it will be to denote which octave ie C1, C2 etc as a PP suggested because at prep level your DS won't be using the full range of the keyboard, just an octave or 2 around middle C. I am not sure how much you know about playing piano but you don't use a specific finger for each note, you move your hand around so that you use the most efficient fingering to make the music flow.

Most of the prep level pieces will be possible to play with your hands in a fixed position though. If his teacher is writing a number for every note he might not have learnt to read music because he hasn't needed to. He could just be using the numbers and playing by ear. TBF, it is not a bad thing to be developing his ear... It could be that he has a natural musical ability to be able to do it!

There are some teaching methods eg Suzuki, Kodaly that do teach by ear at first (and many musical traditions from around the world that are taught entirely and played by ear) so it is not necessarily a bad thing. My concern would be that he isn't being taught by one of those methods and the teacher is just oblivious. If he is following the ABRSM syllabus, it is expected that he can read music from the start. Once he progresses a little further and needs to be able to sight read for exams and play pieces where he needs to change hand position, he won't be able to rely on playing by ear and using the fingering numbers. I would worry that he will become frustrated as he will need to start learning to read music from scratch.

It would be great if you could learn to read music alongside him and practice with him. Singing the name of the note as you read the music is a good way to do it. Using different colours for each note was a popular method when I was at school. You need to ask the teacher to teach you how she is teaching him too. You will only confuse him further if you are calling the notes C and she is using the solfege method. There are actually 2 versions of solfege - fixed, where Do is C, and movable, where Do is the tonic ie it is C if you are playing in a key of C, A if you are playing in a key of A.

I would also ask her for tips on how to practice effectively. Just playing the pieces isn't a good way to practice.

Whatever you do, keep it fun!

Gosh. So many incredibly useful messages. Thank you so much. I've read and every one, and I will reread the entire thread with a pen and notebook and put together a plan.

I think my son was a bit too young to start piano, the school then switched him from a previous teacher to the current one, then we had lockdown then I got pregnant, had a baby and for a full term he did hardly any practise. This was totally my fault and once I was out of the newborn woods, I started prioritising his piano more. She noticed a big difference from that point, which was last year.

I also discovered that any time she would introduce new music, he would say 'no thanks' and just want to play easy things he already knew. My son will try his luck with anybody to get out of doing anything if he senses they will let him get away with it. I spoke to him and he agreed to do the new pieces that the teacher gave him and she noticed a big difference from then on too.

I'm going to give it one more year (we pay up front for a year's lessons) and really support him from a fun, playing for the love of it kind of way but also help him (by learning myself) to read the notes. I will speak to the teacher too. If I haven't noticed much of an improvement by this time next year I will think again about whether it's the right instrument for him.

Having reflected, I do think that I have unfairly put the blame on the teacher when I certainly haven't been music mum of the year. My son was also a problem but this went on for so long without me knowing. So I know the changes to implement on our end, and will give it one last shot to see if it's worth continuing. I don't want to give up without really properly supporting him first.

Thank you so much for the really useful messages. So, so much to go away and think about, and ask the teacher about. She did say that the Grade 1 will require sight reading, so I assume she will be working on this going forward.

Thanks so much, again.

Didn't mean to say my son was a problem. Meant his attitude was a part of the problem. Multitasking!

And who could blame him for having a lacklustre attitude when it seemed like I wasn't bothered either (after having my baby)

Lack of practice will be part of the issue but... personally, I really don't think it is helpful to write numbers on all the notes. Far better to just write the numbers on the first note when the student needs to change hand position or if an unusual pattern is needed so the student isn't relying on the numbers rather than reading the music. I don't think the teacher has helped matters.

It does sound a little like your DS isn't really enjoying learning though. It could be because he finds it hard work to learn something new because he can't read music and learning will help or it could just be he doesn't like it much.

Piano is possibly the most useful instrument to learn if you want to study music academically, compose music, have a career in music etc, even if it isn't your first instrument. I don't think it is necessarily the most fun instrument to learn as a child though! There aren't very many opportunities for playing piano/keyboards in a group, especially at that age or a beginner level so they miss out on all the fun and social side of playing music.

This is a good book to work out what instrument might suit your DS:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Instrument-Your-Child/dp/1409138127

Maybe consider looking for some more fun (or less solitary and easier to learn) musical activities that might interest your DS? Perhaps a children's choir or music group where they use percussion?

It does sound a little like your DS isn't really enjoying learning though. It could be because he finds it hard work to learn something new because he can't read music and learning will help or it could just be he doesn't like it much.

I know I'll get accused of being a pushy parent but our son will try to get out of doing anything which involves concentrating and persevering. He is very gifted at football, for example. His talent is so natural and he get gets so much praise about his skills without putting much effort in. He just scores all the goals naturally and everyone tells him what a legend he is (and he is!). We really support this talent.

However, he does not like working through anything challenging, or doing anything which requires any kind of sticking with something through a process until you come out the other side. I'm a big believer that confidence and brain/character development often come from working through something and seeing your growth over time. I think it's a good skill to learn from a young age. I do differentiate this from bring made to do something soul destroying that you dread and hate.

In our case, when I've encouraged my son to take on the new piece of music, practise until he can play it well, he ends up smashing it then plays it in his own down-time and admits that he loves being able to play it. Any time he performs in a concert, he works up to it and practises beforehand and is always buzzing from the audience reaction and wants to do it again. So, I know that he loves being able to actually play but doesn't really enjoy the process of learning. But maybe you're right, and another instrument could be the answer.

I agree with you that learning to persevere is an important life skill, especially if your DS has natural talents that mean he can coast without any effort at school or in football. On the other hand, if he isn't passionate about learning the piano, pushing him might put him off all music for life. Hopefully, once he has learnt to read music that will make it less of a challenge.

I would look for other musical activities that are easier for him to encourage a love of music in the hope that that will inspire him to persevere with the piano, something that he finds harder.

Speaking from my personal experience (and also my DCs)... I learnt the violin from the age of 4. I wanted to learn but I really didn't enjoy it, particularly not practicing. I loved making the music and was naturally musical but scales and practicing technique... My parents didn't push me to practice. They did encourage me to make music though. I loved going to musicianship classes, I loved learning the recorder at school from Year 1 because it was easy, I loved playing in groups and orchestras from age 5/6. I liked messing around, playing things that were easy for fun, playing my violin pieces on the recorder (because it was easier), going to children's concerts etc. Having fun motivated me to want to practice (eventually). Just playing lots for fun is almost as good as practising... I might have given up the violin if it was all hard work and no play.

I tried to take a similar approach with my DC. If I am honest, I would say I was a pretty pushy parent 😂I tried to push them into things I thought they would enjoy though so they would be self motivated to work at things rather than forcing them to do something. I think it worked 😂They are adults now who still play and perform. They found instruments, hobbies and sports that they love. They are self motivated and self disciplined despite probably not being naturally inclined to be like your DS (and me!) 😂I don't think you can learn to be self motivated/self disciplined by being forced to do something you don't enjoy.

My daughter has always been musical. She plays piano (started aged 4 or 5), drums, mandolin, guitar and bodhran.

Her favourite lesson at school was music and she passed her exams.

She went to college for 3 years and has a music diploma.

She's participated in many concerts/gigs.

After leaving college as a student she returned there as a Learning Support Assistant in the music department and worked there for 3 years helping students and even standing in for tutors and taking lessons herself.

She never learned to read music 😄

This would be extremely unusual. Far more likely that the numbers refer to fingers (thumb = 1, etc.)

Incidentally whether or not solfeggio moves around depends on whether it's a moveable do or not.