Piano related: 8 year old son can't read music

[Italianasoitis]

I can't play an instrument, neither can my husband. Our 8 year old has been taking piano lessons since Year 1. I had a baby in the middle of this and for a while, practise went out the window. We resumed daily practise and in June, he did the prep test.

We live abroad and I don't know if that had anything to do with this, but the piano teacher always writes the numbers under the musical notes. When presented with music to read, he cannot play it. He learns everything by heart and plays like that.

His teacher thinks that reading the notes will come with time and the most important thing is that he had an ear for music and can play the tunes well once he knows them. I always have a feeling that her methods are a bit inconsistent (he doesn't follow a book, just sheets she sends home). Maybe this is OK, I really don't know!

My son also does Simply Piano ad an alternative for of piano practise and on the advice of another music teacher, we sometimes ask him to make up his own tunes to get a feel for composing. He seems to have an aptitude for it, but I feel like I'm trying to help him do his homework in another language!

Do you think he should be able to read music enough to just play what's in front of him, or will that come in time? How can we support him when we have no musical knowledge? Are there any red flags we should be looking out for in a teacher? I would consider changing her but I work in the school where she has her lessons so it might be a bit awkward without a really good reason!

Thanks

My daughter has a grade 3 in music and still finds it hard to read music!
Are there exams he will take? He will have to be able to read a bit for that.
But really I don't believe in pushing - it has to be from his own desire to learn. And not sure what 'doors' you think this will open, my friend passed grade 8 when a teen and it didn't do anything for her. Most people that learn to play rarely play as adults.
If you desire to i still a love of playing I don't think you can. That comes from within. Support and encourage, that's all you should be doing.

I learned the violin and always played by ear, as I could never read music properly.

But finger positions change - if middle C is labelled 1, he can play C to G. To play higher up the keyboard means the '1' label has to be moved. So he learns nothing. And why do re me - again does he understand that what keys are do re me will change?

Thank you so much everyone. I'm going out but your responses have been very helpful. Can I just state that I am not a pushy parent at all. I am very uneducated about all things music.

The teacher is full of praise for my son and constantly tells me how great he is and proud she is of him, but then he can't read the notes and I just get confused because I've no idea and just need advice. If she said to me, 'look he is struggling, maybe piano isn't for him' I would stop the lessons at once. I just need to hear from people who understand music and the stage he is at.

If he is a competent pianist but the teaching is a bit off, then I would like to understand that better too.

Thanks for the feedback. Being able to play an instrument opens a whole new world. You can play with others, play in an orchestra, even get a job as a pianist or music teacher or songwriter, join a band or just relaxation and stress relief. It's like learning another language.

I'd have expected him to start to understand the correlation between the written notes and the relevant keys on the piano after 3 years of lessons. Even without being explicitly taught them, just through the repetition of seeing them and playing the matching note. Unless he's really only been looking at the numbers and not the musical notes themselves.

Whether it matters or not... not sure! Depends what your aims are for the lessons. If he can play what he enjoys and enjoys playing, then that's a positive outcome in itself.

Oh FFS. 🙄

OK how did this thread descend to this. I sat I don't want my kid eating chocolate cereal all day as an example and I'm a snob.

OK I'm a snob then.

If he's been learning for 3 years and not Suzuki (or other not reading music method) I'm surprised he's not more advanced to be honest, my younger dd wasn't the quickest at learning (dyslexic) and did prep in a year, grade one a year later. Personally I would change teachers

That's what my instinct is telling me, thank you.

It's not about being pushy, it's about understanding the situation properly.

Thank you.

Regarding the numbering. You can refer to middle C on the piano as C4, and so the D next to it is D4 and so on. So I would think that these are the numbers that she is using.

When I learnt to play the piano everything went from middle C. I learnt the notes first (no numbers) and then numbers were added later and they represented the fingers I was to use. But crucially (I think) I had learnt to read the music first and finger placement was done later for ease of playing.

What happens if he has some very simple music and he is guided through some simple tunes without the numbers on? if you go through note by note going "what's the next note" would he get it? I think to be honest that getting the notes from a music sheet to which they mean is not a long process, and in 3 years he should have "got it" unless there is something else wrong (e.g. he finds it easier to concentrate on the numbers as a quick way of getting to the tune, or if he finds it easier to play by ear rather than working out the notes).

@Italianasoitis but she may be the kind of teacher who doesn't push children through grade exams. Does she enter any of her students for exams? Or is it about learning to play for enjoyment alone?

She does the exams. He just did the prep test.

We aren't doing grades but after 3 years my DC can read music and understands about grade 2 theory concepts. I think probably around grade 1-2.

If the teacher is putting finger numbers I suspect your ds can probably read note values? So knows the difference between a crotchet (worth 1) and a semi breve (worth 4) but just has trouble knowing what note it is when it sits on the stave.

If it were me I would go back to the teacher and say you want him to learn facegbd so he can recognise notes quickly without finger numbers (you could tell her it's because you want him to also learn another instrument or something) and see how he goes.

Does the teacher have any other pupils? Can you ask their experiences? Do they do recitals so you can compare progress?

Thank you for this. Will reply properly later as going out now

@Italianasoitis How does your son sound when he plays? Does he enjoy it?

Just seen your update about the method he learns, as opposed to letter names. I don’t know anything about that method. I did wonder if the numbers written on is for correct finger placement as opposed to helping him read the notes. Often piano music is written with small numbers above the notes to help with fluid finger movement.

I would expect that the teacher would be teaching the correct hand placememt on key = note = basic symbol on sheet music .

After 3 years i would expect that the learner should be able to listen and correctly ID where a note comes from if given a scale and transcribe that down on to sheet music paper.

I was taught by been given the sheet music and first fill in the name of the note then hum the note then play on the tin whistle

I had a similar experience with my son learning the violin and feeling that his teacher hadn't focused enough on ensuring he could read music well in terms of being able to look at a note and know it's a C, rather than interpreting it as 'second finger on the A string'. It meant he found some things difficult when he did his Grade 1. And when he changed teachers I thought he improved.

My younger son started on the recorder, which is a much easier instrument than either the violin (getting the notes in tune) or the piano (playing multiple notes at once). It meant that by the time he was working towards his Grade 1 he could sight-read simple tunes, and now can sight-read slightly more complicated tunes which he finds satisfying. I do think that being able to pick up a piece of music, appropriate to your level, and play it is part of the fun of learning music, even at a basic level.

By the way, I don't know if you know how Do Re Mi works, sorry if I'm over-explaining, but on a piano keyboard, A is always A, but Do will be C if you're in C major, F if you're in F major etc. I don't have any experience with learning in that system.

Also, being able to read music can be a source of life-long pleasure, as an adult I sing in a choir, and DH plays keyboard in a band with his mates. But with kids learning music you can encourage them, but at some point it all depends on whether they have self-motivation to keep the practice going. It's a great opportunity to offer them the chance to have music in their life but you can't guarantee they'll keep it going, just open the door.

I agree with @vintagechristmas - I think the numbers are indicating which finger to use.
My DD is the same age, and has been learning for two years and has just taken prep test. It’s easy enough to get to that point just learning the music without understanding the note names - my DS is a terrible one for learning by ear and not actually interrogating / thinking about the notes he is playing.

@Italianasoitis I suggest you either get a Grade 1, or “for kids/little children”, music theory book or download a music theory app, and work at home with him learning the notes in the treble and bass clefs. Or just download any resource from the internet that tells you what they are (lots of us learned with acronyms like FACE for the spaces and EGBDF for the lines in the treble clef) - then a good app for practicing note recognition is “Flash Note Derby”.
If he can improve his fluency in recognising the notes, it will make his ability to read music much better in the future.
Assuming he is taking ABRSM exams, he will be expected to do a very short piece of sight reading in grade 1 - a couple of bars, not both hands playing at the same time.

I really have to nag my kids about learning music theory - there isn’t time for it to be covered enough in piano lessons, so it is something we have to work on at home. But it gives them a much stronger basis as they start having to learn a lot of scales (DS in working on grade 3 and we’ve really had to go through the theory of the key signatures in order for him to be able to remember them all)

@Italianasoitis Also- how many numbers are there under the notes and what are they?

He sounds great! Once he has mastered a tune, he loves playing.
I asked him to play a certain tune that he had learned a while back for his grandparents. He couldn't remember it and we didn't have the original music the teacher gave so I found the music online and printed it but he couldn't read it without the numbers. I found a tutorial on YouTube and once he watched it he could play it perfectly again

Does your child want to learn or is it you?