Piano related: 8 year old son can't read music

[Italianasoitis]

I can't play an instrument, neither can my husband. Our 8 year old has been taking piano lessons since Year 1. I had a baby in the middle of this and for a while, practise went out the window. We resumed daily practise and in June, he did the prep test.

We live abroad and I don't know if that had anything to do with this, but the piano teacher always writes the numbers under the musical notes. When presented with music to read, he cannot play it. He learns everything by heart and plays like that.

His teacher thinks that reading the notes will come with time and the most important thing is that he had an ear for music and can play the tunes well once he knows them. I always have a feeling that her methods are a bit inconsistent (he doesn't follow a book, just sheets she sends home). Maybe this is OK, I really don't know!

My son also does Simply Piano ad an alternative for of piano practise and on the advice of another music teacher, we sometimes ask him to make up his own tunes to get a feel for composing. He seems to have an aptitude for it, but I feel like I'm trying to help him do his homework in another language!

Do you think he should be able to read music enough to just play what's in front of him, or will that come in time? How can we support him when we have no musical knowledge? Are there any red flags we should be looking out for in a teacher? I would consider changing her but I work in the school where she has her lessons so it might be a bit awkward without a really good reason!

Thanks

Thank you thank you! This is wonderful advice. Yes he is doing those exams and is expected to take grade 1 in 18 months. Thanks again!

He’s only 8. Most 8 year olds have only just become fluent readers of English - I wouldn’t expect most 8 year olds to be able to read music yet. He’s still very young, I wouldn’t worry about his ability to read music for a few more years, especially if his music teacher isn’t concerned.

Are there numbers under EVERY note? Most piano teachers I know write numbers for help with fingering, not in place of the musical note I.e. "1" for use your thumb for this one.

Right reading is definitely a skill that comes with time. At 8, I wouldn't worry if he is quite poor at it. As long as he can look at a note and tell you which note it is and how many beats it is worth I woudlnt worry that he can't put that together with playing - it's an awful lot to do at once!

If it comforta you, have a look at some graded books for sight reading. You'll see that a grade 3 pianist, who would be playing relatively complicated pieces for an exam would still only be expected to do VERY basic sight reading.

Mike got very much better when I was about 10 years old. Basically while I was playig short pieces that weren't interesting to me (so about grade 4) i took satisfaction in getting something right but didn't play for pleasure. But when I was 10 my mum got me some simple song accompaniments. I used to play them after my "proper" practice. They were much easier than what I was practising to my teacher, but I enjoyed the variety.

Think it does up to 4 but don't have access to the sheets now as I'm visiting family.

Yes I think this is it!

Thank you so much!

Thank you for this!

Yes he is doing those exams and is expected to take grade 1 in 18 months. Thanks again!

So 4.5 years to get to grade 1 - that's really slow... I'd try another teacher. Or another instrument where he'll learn to read.

DD can read music, and learnt clarinet from 7 and started piano at 9. However, as others have said, she gave up pretty quickly because lessons become proscriptive and boring. She only did piano for a year then self taught herself. She doesn't actually play piano by looking at the notes, but by ear. She ended up in school orchestras and doing piano recitals, just by enjoying the playing.

Note that Paul McCartney, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Prince, etc can not read music either!

Get rid of the teaching, and let your DC play for enjoyment.

dyscalculia can be helped by music training. There has been research into this exact issue. Different parts of the brain process written music and written numbers (and text and other symbols)

@Italianasoitis "
Think it does up to 4 but don't have access to the sheets now as I'm visiting family."

If it's up to 5 then it's definitely fingers not notes!

Op no advice, but my dd is also leaning but only just started...

How much is that app you mentioned please and is it good?

And yes.. I also have no music knowledge but would expect music reading after 3 years

@KnittedCardi really??

DS (9) started lessons 3 years ago. We're also in Italy and learning to read music was part of every lesson from Day 1 in a very kid-friendly way. Can't remember the name of the series his teacher used but at first he had coloured stickers on each key and coloured nail polish. The picture I've attached is his teacher's notes from the first lesson. He soon picked up sight reading and she always still makes him read the notes of every piece before playing. It does seem very odd that your son's teacher hasn't got him reading music yet. It might be time to change teacher.

Hey OP - I think you’re right to question. I’ve been a piano teacher in the past, and tbh with a practising child I’d be shocked they haven’t learnt to read music in that time. (Obviously if there’s Sen or no practice then that’s different).

Yes people can play without reading music, but I’ve not once heard someone say that they wished they couldn’t read music! I’d learn yourself with him if you can. I promise there’s really not much to it. Start with middle c and go from there. He might realise he knows more than he thinks and is able to ‘teach’ you. And get rid of the numbers, unless it’s genuinely to help with fingering, it’ll just delay proper music reading. Good luck!

Oh gosh, wow that's very useful for context, thank you.

There are fun note reading apps for children.

Flash Note Derby

Treble Cat and Bass Cat and others.

He's 8. Reading music and playing it on first read through is a fairly advanced skill IMO. If he can point to the note on a page and play the same note on the piano (one at a time), then he can read music.

Are the numbers under the notes 1-5? If so, they are just which fingers he should use on that note. My piano teacher was still doing that for me at Grade 7 😂.

As time goes on, he'll become more fluent in all aspects. Even when I was a grade 7 student, I couldn't sightread with huge fluency and needed practice even with the simplistic things they give you in exams. I am almost incapable of playing by ear - that's a separate skill and frankly I'm sure it requires a talent I don't have.

If he can point to the note on a page and play the same note on the piano (one at a time), then he can read music.

He can't though, that's the problem.

I can't see any downside to learning to read music. I bet there are plenty of apps to make it easy and more fun for children. It's strange sometimes the things that people assume are too difficult ir boring for children! They are like sponges when they are that age. The sooner he starts, the more quickly it will become second nature. Learning basic music notation is surely a lot easier than learning to read!

Which bit? But yes!

Definitely voice your concerns with the teacher and tell them that you would like your child to start reading music (and why).
Ask for advice on note reading books, and although the previously mentioned Flash Note Derby and Staff Wars Apps are good, he'll still need to actually learn to read and name the pitches of the notes.
It'd possible that the teacher is using solfege (Doh Re Me etc) although if so, your child would still be reading music, just naming the notes with a fixed Doh (it is fixed at C in Italy) rather than letter names.

Progress does sound slow, although if he wasn't practising in lockdown then he has had to re-learn material. 18 months to Grade 1 from the Prep Test on Piano is on the slow side, and if he is practising 10 minutes every day, I would expect a student who is taught well to be definitely at a confident Grade 1 standard within a year.
Good luck!

Hi OP. Have RTFT and I’d talk to the teacher and ask her all about it, and, assuming no SEN etc, if you don’t get a good explanation and plan, change teachers.
My son learned from about 5. He’s now 16 and at grades 6/7 for piano, drums and percussion. He started piano first and went through all the grading exams (in the U.K.), sometimes skipping a level to cut down on exam work/ stress. But both his piano and percussion teachers have taken him through sight reading and theory. As you’d expect, there were times when he was bored with it, didn’t want to practice, etc. Those times were usually when either what he was learning was difficult, which can only be solved by working through it; or when he had plateaued and so was bored - being set a new piece to learn or being inspired by something got him through those bits. After all this time, he loves music, practices by himself for hours, seeks out movie scores etc, plays with music software, plays in an ensemble and orchestra in school. He’s learned that consistency and time pay off. We’ve never forced him to continue but have talked about these themes and suggested that if he gave up too early he’d regret it.
My point? If he couldn’t read music, then by now some of those skills and the subsequent enjoyment would be locked away from him and he would be limited in what he could do - yes he could learn by heart and compose by recording, but it would be like reading by audio book and writing by dictation - it can be done but it’s harder. Being able to read music is so worth it - it enables sharing and discovery and it’s an international language- I would not want your DS to miss out.
Take it back to basics one step at a time, work through it, and get him there. For him.

Sorry OP, but completely derailing the thread, Hans Zimmer can't read music either. Now that blows my mind. For singer/songwriters you can understand, but for full movie music orchestral scores, wow.

Your teacher is using solfege which is quite common in European countries. I imagine the numbers are to do with fingers so as PP has said thumbs are 1, pointers 2 and so on.

the problem with writing finger numbers under every note is that the students rely on the finger numbers and not the position of the note head on the musical stave ie they don’t recognise high vs low.

I’ve been teaching for almost 40 years and yes, sometimes students do struggle. There are some who confuse left vs right and the up vs down movement in the stave. It may be dyscalculia or dyspraxia or some other additional need that hasn’t shown up. Or, it may be that he just finds it easier to memorise and so prefers to learn that way. Some children can be very resistant to looking at the page and prefer to learn by rote, repetition and looking at their hands.

Things you could do to help - get a theory book to work through the notation away from the piano. Find some piano games - Teach Music Today website has free ones you can use. Apps can be helpful. Note Rush is good as is Flashnote Derby. For rhythm use Rhythm Swing.

With the support of the teacher start to remove the finger numbers and look at intervallic reading ie is the note one step higher or lower. Look at tutor books like Get Set Piano or the Piano Adventures series where he can do easier tunes without having the finger numbers written in.

sorry turned into a bit of an essay!