Forced return to office - anyone else?

[Flexipecs]

My work has announced we’re all being forced back into the office two days a week. I’m a sole parent of primary school aged children (no help from ex). If I’m forced to go into the office I’ll have to reduce my working hours and I’ll be financially worse off.

I’m going to contact my union but has anyone else had this problem and did you successfully challenge it?

There’s zero benefit to me being in the office. My stats and performance are high. I actually think I’m more productive at home because I’m not being distracted so often. I’ve worked for the company for a very long time and I’m really disappointed at this decision (to put it mildly).

My husband's place of work keep changing their minds about what they want. And all those people who say well, work from home wasn't written into your contracts, the company has closed it's office one day a week so WFH is now mandatory on that day, that's not written into their contracts either. There comes a point where something is custom and practice and new contracts should be issued and people should be able to make practical arrangements based on those working practices.

Because there life is where it is. Is - in the present and it works well for them. What’s difficult to understand about having a better quality of life?

That’s a broad generalisation. Interestingly within my team the ones who had reservations where the ones that are high performing. Let’s not far everyone with the same brush!

Thé world hasn’t changed for business owners.

As a business owner my main aim is to keep the business profitable
Otherwise everyone will be out of a job (including me)

I would ask for a meeting or email boss asking them if you can finish early on the office days to be home for when kids get home from school, then start work again and finish the working hours remaining on those days from home! Offer maybe for your drive home to be your lunch break so that you only have to do a couple of hours once home?
You need a solid plan and proof of your productivity being better when WFH.

I would also ask for the flexibility to WFH completely during the school holidays… finding childcare / clubs for pre-teens isn’t as easy in real life as on mumsnet.

Presumably your working day will also be longer due to commute times and more expensive due to fuel and parking costs. Factor it all into a letter and request that allowances are made for you as sole parent… also include that it’s only X amount of years till the kids can come home and make themselves a snack for a couple of hours till you get home.

Juggling childcare is so hard. It’s great you have the willpower to WFH successfully, like I say prove to boss that WFH benefits them as your output is better and go from there.

goodluck

I have been a manager too and my DH is currently a fully remote manager. Relationships don't need a regular physical office presence and although "team building" may seem easier face to face, in reality it can really slow down the pace of work and is not always inclusive. You can spend forever faffing about with post its and listening to one person pontificate - and then the manager writes it all up anyway. I've not had any problems in building relationships online and then meeting up with colleagues once or twice a year feels like a lovely encounter with old friends!
Remote work means you can achieve lots more and stick to time limits on meetings- and that's the core purpose of work- being a "great team" that achieves sweet FA isn't any use!

Sorry to sound harsh but that's not your employer's fault!

I think you've been lucky to have been home so long.

It's now time to go back to the office.

And part of that is keeping customers happy so that they continue to pay for services/goods. If customers are getting poor customer service due to employees working from home with children or pet noise in the background they're more likely to take their business elsewhere. Of course, when it comes to public sector, they can't take their business elsewhere so the taxpayer is a captive audience and customer service standards don't matter to them.

"Teams" can feck off. So much work now is just made up nonsense. You could sack half the staff in almost any big org and productivity wouldn't dip. There should be more focus on product and less on oo touchy feely work is my MUM.

Agreed

Which is why we brought the staff back in to work

You'll wonder in 12 months why only the dregs of your workforce are still there. Gen z are even more vociferous than millenials. They'll straight up quit if you treat them like kids.

I really value my workplace for letting me be at home but if they ever changed I'd be out of there. Fortunately I think the more offices are sold the less it will be possible to force people in.

I think working flexibly is useful - I have been having Invisalign so if I can skip off at 4pm and do the hour later, that’s really helpful.

But I think being truly flexible and essentially picking and choosing when you work to fit around your lifestyle just isn’t practical for every job. I think it works if you are long established in your job, high up enough that you don’t have juniors reporting directly to you and don’t rely on quick responses from clients/third parties/internally, but otherwise it’s really difficult.

We had an associate who basically wanted to do half her work day really early, have a break in the day for childcare, then finish off in the evening, so half of of her working day she would be on her own. It just wouldn’t work if she needs support or needs to contact someone internally or a third party.

Similarly I also couldn’t do that because there are several junior members of staff that rely on me for help and approving things day to day. It would just make everything take so much longer and would prob result in me just doing everything myself!

It’s not been an issue for us yet,thanks
A couple of people left but they were no loss
Have a full staff,we pay well and conditions are good
But all that staff being unavailable for a quarter of the day and ‘making up ‘the hours in the evening,doesn’t work for us

That’s not true.
Many businesses have changed the way they work, including doing many things remotely.
There has been opportunities that some business owners have grabbed with both hands. And challenges too.

But saying nothing has changed isn’t true.

@Pinkitydrinkity dh works like that.
Breaks in the the middle of the day when he needs to or want to.

He also works with people from the US, Canada, Europe, India, China and … England! (Where his office officially is)
That means he regularly has meetings at 8.00pm. His busy time is between 4.00pm and 8.00pm or in the morning. So he takes a break in the middle if that fits better.

What I’m trying to say there, is that flexibility and wfh is a positive for the business here because it’s allowing him to be present at times he wouldn’t have if he was still in the office.
Not everyone is that strictly attached to those hours (and I’d suggest less and less people will)

@AsterixAndPersimmon yes it does work for some people - my brother is in a similar position to your husband and works early and then late to tie in with other time zones as he is the only one in his company in the UK. But it wouldn’t work for me as a manager in accountancy.

I have to say I don’t think it’s particularly healthy though, although my brother will be away from his desk for a few hours in the day he is never truly “off”.

It’s not about what you think, how can you be more productive whilst looking after a child?

We now have offices with sufficient work stations for 40% occupancy, as we do 2 days per week in the office, 3 at home.

Why does everyone assume that because you want to WFH you have a small child at home?

And why does everyone assume that you want to look after said child while working?

The reason people find going into the office hard is because of the commute - cost in £ and time - and time being even more significant. If I work locally or at home 9-5, I don't necessarily need wraparound care depending on the age of the child. But if I have to travel I will need to cover the 8-9 or the 3.30-6.

MNers are absolutely obsessed with people looking after children while working.

And no, I don't like kids and pets appearing on Teams calls, but it happens much less often these days and although annoying, really doesn't affect me.

lieselotte · Today 14:40
Why does everyone assume that because you want to WFH you have a small child at home?

And why does everyone assume that you want to look after said child while working?

@lieselotte i have no idea! I don’t have children but love hybrid working. It’s not always about children!

Exactly! I have to go to the office 5 days a week too. We had about a stint of working at home early on in lockdown, but because we are a type of industry that was permitted to stay open, the bosses brought us back. We are 100% office based. I would LOVE to only have to go in on two days - people moaning about it sound extremely entitled!

It’s not entitled to be unhappy to see your life change Wo you having any say!!

And it’s not because you’ve never wfh that others didn’t and shouldn’t carry in enjoying that. If you want to wfh 3 days a week, you can change job to one that offers that. You have choice.
The OP might have much less choice re having to reduce her working hours (because that’s her issue! NOT the working in the office as such)

This thread is crazy.

All of you should ask your management whether you can have the arrangement you want and, if their response is no, you can be annoyed about it but frankly you’ve then got a choice of either accepting your situation or moving jobs/industries to get closer to where you want to be.

Do something about your situation instead of either moaning about your situation or moaning that others are moaning about their situation/saying you’d looooove it if you had the opportunity to work from home like X has.

The above also applies to those working in non-WFH industries.

Take charge of your lives - all of your decisions are choices - while work may not be optional, no one is forcing you to work in any particular job/industry.

And to the response, “I’d not be able to find another job” then, whether that’s true or not, you need to understand that you’re not in a position of strength and management has no real incentive to give you what you want. If they don’t want to allow you to WFH, then there’s no reason for them to unless they can’t hire/staff.

No competition (or you feeling that there is no other option for you) means there is no reason for them to change.

Now it’s the flip side where the magic happens, if you are in the private sector and someone with an in demand skill set/in an industry suffering due to lack of potential employees - you can practically dictate what you want from an employer.

And to the business owners out there - I’m paid to do my job, not care about your business or your teams. That’s a lovely bonus you get if you treat me with respect. It’s your job to ensure you stay afloat, not mine. If we’re being frank and we get to the crux of things - I couldn’t care less about what works for you, much like you couldn’t care less what works for me. If my presence stops being required, you’ll have no qualms in getting rid - similarly if your job stops suiting me, I’ll have no qualms about leaving. Loyalty is a fool’s errand for an employee in 2023.

But those of us who don’t like WFH have been forced to change our lives too (for the worse) and it won’t ever be like pre-covid again. Yes if you don’t like wfh you can go into the office but my office is completely empty, I sit on my own and spend all day on Teams just like I would at home so it’s pointless. I’ve resigned myself to the fact I probably won’t progress any further in my career because of it, which is pretty shit when I’m only 30.

There isn’t a “one size fits all” for everyone now.