Carla Foster being released

[JustMint]

Court of appeal have reduced her sentence!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65581850

So killing a perfectly healthy viable baby doesn't require any sort of punishment.

Hmm

In fairness, a suspended sentence is a punishment

A woefully inadequate one

Are you for real? She knew very early on she was pregnant. She spent months, MONTHS doing nothing about it. She was more concerned about being found out there were two possible fathers and she didn’t know who was the father.

please explain this post?
it makes zero sense.

Practically everyone on this thread thinks that what she did was awful, really really trully horrific.
But there is nuance, it has nothing to do with feminism as such, it revolves around the punishment, and her life and the lives of her children from now on. A custodial sentence wasn't appropriate in this case and it's good the judge has seen that and made a correction.

It does have to do with feminism in that we see how differently women are treated within the justice system according to their race class and vs how men are treated. There are several dozen studies on that already. It also has to do with feminism as we see how harshly she is judged by some people with no acknowledgement of the situation she was in. It also has to do with feminism because (and i am aware the entire events weren't within lockdown) of the way women as a class were impacted negatively by the covid restrictions.

You aren’t pro choice if you put any limits on it, except the choice of the woman.

As early as possible, as late as necessary, for whatever reason.

You can actually access abortion after 24 weeks for medical reasons.

Are you suggesting it would be ok to choose to abort a child right up to term, if that was a woman's 'choice'?

The idea that you believe this woman did something wrong but also believe prison is not the best place for her can coexist. It doesn’t mean you condone her actions or not care about the baby.

I don’t understand this obsession with prison as a punishment being the best option. Nowhere around the world does a justice system focused on punishment help either offenders or society at large. America has one of the highest prison populations and one of the highest crime and reoffending rates.

It’s just this archaic idea that we must make people suffer for their mistakes to teach them a lesson but that is proven not to work. It doesn’t work on toddlers or teens or adults. Countries that focus on the underlying causes of crime and rehabilitation have much much lower reoffending rates but that is too nuanced for many.

are you ok forcing anyone to birth a child?

It’s interesting that the court of appeal have said there was "exceptionally strong mitigation" yet some people on this thread think they know better, despite not knowing all the details the judges had.

I need to step away from this post.

Yes I am for real. Do you know her? Are you intimately aware of what was going on in her head. Her living situation at the time? The exact thought process that led to her decision? Life is not so black and white, try to see the shades of grey from time to time.

Well said. People need to put down their pitchforks.

Yes.

The alternative is being forced to carry to term a pregnancy that’s not wanted.

The “forced birth” argument really doesn’t apply in this case, as the baby was old enough to survive outside the uterus.

we were talking in general terms. Forced birth? not on my watch

I don’t get this. She would have had to give birth whether the baby was living or dead.

Has she said she didn’t want to be pregnant anymore and asked for an induction obviously that would be totally different, and in principle that should be accommodated. Doesn’t mean a healthy 34 week old has to die.

I agree that practically at 33 weeks you are giving birth either way. To me that lends even more weight to the theory that she was not thinking clearly or rationally and needed support.

@Brefugee has already said they are speaking in more general terms however and I agree with them.

I was glad to read this decision had been made. Prison was never appropriate.

I agree that practically at 33 weeks you are giving birth either way. To me that lends even more weight to the theory that she was not thinking clearly or rationally and needed support.

Absolutely!

I absolutely support a woman’s right to choose, as soon as possible as late as necessary. And this woman knew it was necessary for her.

This!

@stbrandonsboat because the alternative is to grant personhood to a person who is within another person's body.

Which leads to the nonsense you have in the us with criminal charges for using drugs in pregnancy, etc.

And when does that personhood begin? Do you decide it's a person at conception? Before you even know you're pregnant? A huge proportion of pregnancies miscarry very early without the woman knowing she's pregnant, what about that?

You can't give equal personhood to a being that is wholly dependent on someone else. Because that would overrule a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

Eg imagine being pregnant, being diagnosed with cancer and being told you couldn't treat it because it would harm the baby.

Thinking that there should be some limits applied to when you can have a termination because you do not want a baby is not supporting forced birthing.

There is nothing necessary about waiting until you are 39+6 to have a termination because you do not want to have a child. No one in their right mind would choose to wait until foeticide becomes part of the termination process so the no time limits/for any reason argument is moot but it does arm the anti choice campaigners with a case that the majority of the population supports.

There is very little public support for late term abortion except on medical grounds and even less demand so why even try to make the argument for it?

The women who find themselves having late term abortions are usually devastated they have had to make that decision either to protect their own health or because of foetal abnormalities incompatible with life. It's essential we protect their right to access that care and not undermine it by making unnecessary arguments for no limits/any reason access.