Hugely first world problem but are my expectations of a housekeeper too high?

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Prefacing this that I know I’m hugely privileged to be able to afford this etc.

We recently (Feb) hired a housekeeper on a full time basis (8 hours a day Monday to Friday, £45k annual salary) to look after our new house. She’s excellent at laundry and ironing, bed making second to none, but the house is not that clean and definitely untidy. Clothes and toys and STUFF out. Not a tip but not pristine or impromptu guest ready.
Am I unreasonable in expecting dusting, cobweb cleaning, putting things away in this time? I know I could do it myself but I’m paying her (I think) a good salary so I don’t have to.
We have a biggish london house but not a mansion - 6 bedrooms over 4 floors.

Part of the problem is maybe that she’s always talking on the phone on her AirPods, which I’m sure slows her down.

She’s also consistently 15 mins late but leaves bang on time, which again isn’t a huge amount of time she’s missing but feels irritating since I’m not sure the quality of her work is fantastic. There have also been multiple occasions she’s been a lot later due to various issues (dog was sick, plumber etc) but it’s happened more often than I feel is reasonable for such things to arise.

Part of the reason we hired her is my eldest daughter has severe dust mite allergies and associated asthma and eczema so it’s key the house is as dust free as possible to avoid asthma attacks etc. but shelves/ornaments are dusty.

But am I unreasonable in expecting a totally spotless, 100% tidy house everyday for her hours?

You're paying her 45k per year to tidy and clean your house and she doesn't 'see mess'? If I was being charitable I'd say she has landed in the wrong job. Being uncharitable, she's taking advantage by not doing her job. Either way, you need to have a chat about expectations - a daily list of tasks with standards you expect for each, and if it doesn't improve find someone else.

OP I’d happily come and do the is job for you for £45k and your house would be spotless and it would be my pride and joy 🤩

Someone who "just doesn't see mess/dirt" would be absolutely useless in a supervisory role as well. There's no way you should either have to train or micro-manage her, or provide her with additional staff. She's totally unsuited to the job. Relieve her of it (following all legal requirements to the letter!)

It might be that you'd be better served by 2 or 3 people doing specific parts of the job, but there are in fact loads of competent people who enjoy running a household & take pride in keeping everything nice.

The ideal, surely, is a full-time employee you can trust to just get stuff done, who learns how your family works so they can anticipate your needs, and comes to feel like a valued member of your household. You should definitely be able to find such a person for the salary you're offering.

YANBU
She is lazy, and has no idea about what her job title involves
I think it's time where you have a job appraisal meeting with her.
She is not even a good cleaner

I can't think of anywhere else in the world that a cleaner earns £45k for not even fulfilling their job description. Most domestic staff around the world earn less than £200/month, that's the difference.

45 grand for cleaning and tidying a family home!

Where do I sign up?

She's taking the piss. You should be able to eat off the floors of your house for that.

Just get rid of her and get someone else.

My dream (in life, yes I’m sad😁) is to get a cleaner in for even a few hours and I’ve got ridiculously huge expectations of what the house would look like afterwards so for that salary and that amount of time I would expect to have the cleanest house known to humanity!!

Sounds like she’s definitely taking the piss. If she was on the phone for ages AFTER cleaning your house and making it spotless then fine, but she’s basically just taking your money and doing nothing.

Have you got lots of clutter op? I’m wondering if you might benefit from getting home organisers in to put in systems and streamline everything and then following that employ a cleaner for probably half the time? It’s much easier to clean after everything is organised and has a home?

For £45k she’s laughing and taking you for a mug! Even Buckingham Palace pays way less than that!

time for a list of expectations and as she’s been with you less than 2 years you can decide her employment is no longer required.

I'd find someone else. A housekeeper can run errands for you one day and tidy the home, deep clean the living area and main bathroom on one day, deep clean the remainder of the home in one day, do ironing tasks in between and occasionally be home to ensure there is an adult at home while you go out for a meal with your partner if you have older kids that doesn't require active baby sitters but just someone as a responsible adult to be home during an emergency. For that salary and with barely any cleaning I would expect that housekeeper to bloody cook as well. You're hiring someone to take over yours and your partners household duties from shopping to organising to cleaning. She is taking the piss.

For the hours she is working and the salary you're paying her, I would expect a spotless, tidy, house, plus the evening meal cooked every day. It seems crazy to pay that much and still have to cook dinner in the evening and wash up. Without any childcare duties, it's really hard to understand what she's doing all day.

I'm evidently in the wrong line of work - where are these cleaning jobs for £45k?! I couldn't do it because of health issues and stamina, especially post COVID, but I'm astonished she's earning more than many teachers, nurses, junior doctors....

Where do you get your income from that you can afford to pay one person more than many, many families, with or without children with allergies, have to live on for a year or more?

That said, what would probably help, if you want to keep her and not find someone else, you need a proper job description for her. Could you have a look at some other job descriptions or work out what you need her to do and actually specify it?

E.g. daily duties to help make the place as hypoallergenic as possible, Tuesday includes polish the silverware, Wednesday includes a REALLY thorough steam clean level cleanse of the bathroom etc? Would it be worth seeing if you can find some other job descriptions or having a chat with an agency?

You’ve hired a housekeeper but want/need are treating her as a cleaner.

I know you levelled with her at interview, but in reality, she’s poss unhappy? Usually HKs have a broader spec & even in a house your size will have a cleaner to manage for the grunt work approx x1 a week or x2 a week, for a few hours.

Good HKs are skilled professionals who take a real pride in their work. What were her previous responsibilities/duties? She’s underutilised. Why pay that salary for a cleaner? I would expect:

Some cooking & organising/shopping for food. Simple meals & salads/low cal snacks made & in fridge for me. Playdate pasta cooking, or similar.

Dry cleaning responsibilities.

Running errands - post office, picking up items, making appointments at opticians, etc.

Looking at spreadsheet re: scheduling spring cleaning, ditto: upholstery, carpets, curtains, as appropriate.

Helping with wardrobe management. Charity shop run, etc.

Picking kids up from school sometimes, supervising homework if appropriate.

Animal care - vet runs, etc.

Managing tradesmen & keeping on top of deliveries. Etc.

Helping to manage any interior design projects.

Helping declutter & with filing if appropriate.

If kids 6 ish plus, keeping an eye on them if you need to go out sometimes/relieving nanny if you have etc.

Friendly, kind, caring upbeat disposition.

House ‘visitor ready’ at all times.

That’s what 45k is for.

Do you have a contract/job spec? Did you hire her through an agency?

To add, good ironing & bed linen changes, washing & delicates hand washed.

Agree, I wouldn't be tidying the kitchen/ dishwasher either

If I had someone "looking after the hoise for 8 hours a day" then that would come under it

Ffs she's always late, let her go

Buckingham palace is notorious for paying really badly so not a good comparison but I agree for that wage, she should be doing a much better job.

If she wanted to manage not clean, she shouldn’t have taken the job.

I don't think youre unreasonable to expect more from her when paying that much money. Its plenty of time to leave your house sparkling, do some gardening and cook dinner IMO. I'd expect the hotel experience spending that much money. I think she's being complacent.

Cut your losses and find someone new but perhaps be clear to the new person where it went wrong with the current housekeeper and exactly what your expectations are so there's no confusion.

A band 7 nurse running a ward/outpatients department would earn similar.

£45k for housekeeping is mind boggling.

I agree with many of the replies. This is a very fair wage and you sound like extremely decent people to work for.
I used to have a nanny/housekeeper who worked full time and would definitely tidy and clean up kitchen and living areas as well as all laundry, kids rooms and cooking, pick up & drop off etc etc. So what you are asking for IE immaculate house is very reasonable in the time allocated.

I suspect you are right, she's used to a role that is maybe in a household where there were cleaners as well and prefers doing laundry rather than tidying.

If I am honest you need to tackle this head on. I'd have a conversation along the lines of "I've noticed that you are not doing tidying and cleaning which I was expecting as part of the role and this improved last time we discussed it but only temporarily. A clean house is absolutely critical for me (given kids allergies) therefore this is not something that I can compromise on. I would ask that you prioritise these tasks every single day over laundry or ironing or any other tasks. This includes dusting all ornaments and tidying all toys and items and also putting away all shopping deliveries. If you don't know where something goes please ask or just put where feels sensible and check later if I am not available. "

This is a managerial problem like any other, OP. You need a clear WRITTEN agreement on the jobs to be done, with a schedule. Then that’s something you can review with her and you have a clear framework to refer to if things seem to fall behind. Too often (I’m guilty of this myself) you have a vague verbal agreement about ‘cleaning and tidying’ but you really need to specify dust all surfaces daily, clean skirting boards weekly, remove mould in bathroom as soon as it appears etc etc. Otherwise they’ll just glide and even the little they’re doing will become less and less. It sounds ridiculously corporate, but you’re performance managing an employee; use (some of) the same tools you’d use at work!

We had a housekeeper until recently on the same salary as yours for 36 hours a week. We ended up terminating her contract for other reasons but to be fair the house was pretty immaculate. I did notice ours liked spending a lot of time in the laundry room too and I think it’s because she used to watch things on her phone while ironing - so didn’t rush to finish that task! I ended up asking her not to but it created an atmosphere in my home as she’d become very moody, which I hated it. When we terminated her contract I did feel like a massive weight had been lifted and I’ve not replaced her - that’s in part due to not being able to find anyone suitable but I’ve not looked that hard to be fair. For now we have a self employed cleaner 3 times a week. A lot less hassle and if they don’t come they don’t get paid. But - the house isn’t kept as nicely. It’s a trade off. But I’m with you - you have every right to be miffed about your house not being immaculately clean and tidy when you are paying that level of salary for it to be.

I also used to empty the dishwasher before she started work and clear the kitchen of breakfast items on the basis that that mess was incurred outside of her working hours but my DH did think I was a bit crazy on that front. 😂

It sounds like she's taking the piss. If I was 15 mins late for work every day and my work wasn't up to my employers expectations, they would be replacing me.

Set some boundaries, or get rid of her, before the piss taking gets worse.

She's taking the piss. We have a full time housekeeper and every day she does the following:

• feeds DS his meals
• makes the beds
• tidies up the kids toys
• does the dishes and wipes k
• does the laundry
• watches DS if I have to go out
• cleans

She does all this and gets plenty of time to relax as well. She's sat having a cup of tea right now whilst I play with DD and when DS wakes up she'll probably watch the kids while I cook.

The advantage of having someone full time is that they don't have to get everything done in one day. Our housekeeper generally does one "big" task a day like either changing the bed sheets, sweeping and mopping, cleaning bathrooms or a job lot of ironing. If there's one day where she's busy with DS and can't clean much then it's fine as she's back the next day and can do it then instead.

Tidying up is 100% part of a housekeepers job. They are not a cleaner there for 3 hours just to clean, they are there to keep your house in the order that you would keep it yourself if you had the time and were so inclined.

Gosh I’m in the wrong job, I love cleaning and tidying. I think you need to make a daily and weekly list of tasks with priorities, she clearly needs some guidance. The phone calls would bother me too, I cannot spend the day on the phone during my work day. I think you need a serious discussion with her that calls are for breaks, and about working her paid hours. If she’s late for some reason she should make the time up