Hugely first world problem but are my expectations of a housekeeper too high?

[SlightEmbarrassment]

Prefacing this that I know I’m hugely privileged to be able to afford this etc.

We recently (Feb) hired a housekeeper on a full time basis (8 hours a day Monday to Friday, £45k annual salary) to look after our new house. She’s excellent at laundry and ironing, bed making second to none, but the house is not that clean and definitely untidy. Clothes and toys and STUFF out. Not a tip but not pristine or impromptu guest ready.
Am I unreasonable in expecting dusting, cobweb cleaning, putting things away in this time? I know I could do it myself but I’m paying her (I think) a good salary so I don’t have to.
We have a biggish london house but not a mansion - 6 bedrooms over 4 floors.

Part of the problem is maybe that she’s always talking on the phone on her AirPods, which I’m sure slows her down.

She’s also consistently 15 mins late but leaves bang on time, which again isn’t a huge amount of time she’s missing but feels irritating since I’m not sure the quality of her work is fantastic. There have also been multiple occasions she’s been a lot later due to various issues (dog was sick, plumber etc) but it’s happened more often than I feel is reasonable for such things to arise.

Part of the reason we hired her is my eldest daughter has severe dust mite allergies and associated asthma and eczema so it’s key the house is as dust free as possible to avoid asthma attacks etc. but shelves/ornaments are dusty.

But am I unreasonable in expecting a totally spotless, 100% tidy house everyday for her hours?

Missing the point here, but my daughter has similar allergies and her immunologist advised we didn’t over dust or hoover, as it’s the house dust mites being chucked into the air that causes the problem. When they’re undisturbed is less of a problem. We were told to change bed sheets weekly, hoover/clean once a week. Minimal cuddly toys that need regular machine wash, and ideally no rugs/carpets. There was a website called something like ‘itchy wheezy sneezy’ that contained helpful info.

I know, no one can physically clean for that many hours a day - except all the thousands of people who actually do every day 🤔

£45k a year! Get rid and I'll come clean for you 😜

I think it might be that. I have worked in homes with house keepers and it’s not just a cleaning role. It’s more day to day management, answering door, letting contractors/ other paid roles in, doing laundry impeccably, day to day cleaning, but deep cleans are done by actual cleaners once a week, running errands, making tea and coffee, filing, admin, etc.

Top tip, when I've employed cleaners and housekeepers I'm really clear that I value punctuality right from the start, my current cleaner arrives exactly on time and leaves on times every single time. She is brilliant. She has worked for me for 15 years so I'm sure she likes me too. She does about 10 hours a week cleaning and ironing. My house is smaller than the OPs but it's spotless.
I've always had cleaners and housekeepers tidy up after us as well as clean. It's never been a problem. Im clear about what I want done before I hire so it's up to applicants if they want the job or not. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Definitely think this is someone who is having a laugh! What planet would a normal human being be on to pay £45 K for a housekeeper ! Can vaguely understand if you live in a stately home with visitors every day ! Who else on this thread would pay someone 8 hrs a day to generally tidy and clean up behind you ?🤔

FWIW, we have a cleaner every other week, she comes for 2.5 hours with another person for a total of 5 hours. When she leaves house is spotless (4 bedrooms over 4 floors, 2000 sq ft). Beds changed, tidied etc. and she only comes every other week so kitchens and bathrooms need a deep clean. I would absolutely expect someone to be able to fit in laundry and putting away more toys than we leave out over 8 hours and your house isn’t going to need that level of effort to clean daily. I would just find someone else, you can have to micromanage her daily or you can just find someone who will do a good job without so much prodding.

OP, you don't want a housekeeper.

You want a cleaner perhaps 3 time a week tops, and then a "mother's help".

I know, right?!

'Goodness, no one could possibly do what the plebs do, imagine! One would quite ruin one's hands.'

She sounds highly inadequate in my opinion.

Get someone else who is not on their phone all day, and actually knows how to clean and tidy up properly/thoroughly.

Being consistently late is also bad, that’s equates to just over 5 hours a month (60 hours a year).

Good/thorough people do exist, but the problem is so many of them are basically lazy, not thorough and can’t be bothered.

£45k is an excellent salary and if I were you, I would be very careful and choosy if/when you interview again and make sure you very clearly explain exactly what you expect and the standard you require.

So you are paying somebody £45k to walk around on her phone and every now and again putting a toy in a box.

I know the job market generally favours the employee at the moment but this is taking the piss.

in my previous (married) life I was lucky to have been in the position of having a full-time housekeeper in a similar sized house. She was amazing, did everything - cleaning, tidying, laundry (sheets were washed and ironed every other day), and quite often she made dinner for us all too - and the house was always immaculate. Right down to the corners and underneath furniture. It was bliss. When I got divorced, I missed her far more than I missed my ex-husband, if I’m honest.

I think your housekeeper is taking the mick - you’re paying her a very good salary and your expectations were clear. She isn’t even good at timekeeping - that’s showing a lack of respect and commitment that you shouldn’t have to put up with. Time to replace her, I’d say.

£46k is a huge wage ! I only get £24k working for frontline ambulance….for the wage you pay I’d expect it to be spotless !

My friend has someone come everyday and they’re paid to do the dishwasher etc. why would you do that? And leaving half the shopping out?
You must have a high level role to earn so much- be the boss!

You must have a high level role to earn so much- be the boss

Or her husband does.

Did you hire her through an agency? If so, it might be worth having a conversation with them - they usually touch base a few times toward the beginning.

Our house is a similar size and I've had a similar setup. Interestingly, when my housekeeper moved further away, we went from 5 days 40 hours to 25 hours over 3 days and she still seems to get the same amount done, so I think the PP's who said it's more hours than are necessary might be right.

We have certain things we do ourselves - I do the laundry, although might sometimes ask her to do a load, my DH changes our sheets but she does the kids'. We leave the kitchen pretty clean but not spotless at night and sometimes unload the dishwasher in the morning but not always.

I don't have her do any shopping, cooking, meal prep or childcare. She cleans, changes the kids' beds, picks up any debris, and irons (including all the sheets). She also runs the house when we're not around - i.e. deals with deliveries and collections, any builders or workmen, and waters plants. She knew the job when she took it and while she might have been used to supervising cleaning in other previous positions, she knew she would be the only staff and that it would be hands on in this one.

Truthfully, I think there's a learning curve of someone figuring out what's important to you and you figuring out what's in her line of vision - the dust is probably a bit of blind spot for some reason. Mine's been with us for years and I still have to periodically point out places she habitually misses. And, yes, she's always on that bloody phone and I agree, it not only slows things down but is distracting from the job. I remind myself that it's a job without a huge amount of intellectual stimulation and try not to begrudge it. Just today, though, I was in the office trying to get a project out and the rest of the house was quiet, so I could hear her talking endlessly for hours and sort of wanted to shoot one or both of us.

In your shoes, I would spend a day or two trying to understand how she allocates her time and if there's anything you can see that could be tweaked to make things more efficient. Ask her if she prefers if you make her a schedule or checklist - I once had someone I'd hired from an agency quit after two days saying she couldn't work for me because I wasn't structured enough.

Good luck, OP. It might be a first world problem, but it's someone else in your house, you're paying them fairly, and you have a right to expect they'll do their job well.

You’ve employed a housekeeper but you want is a cleaner. Housekeepers run the house, cleaners clean it.

I understand that you put cleaning in the job description - but she may have thought you expected her to oversee the cleaning rather than do it all herself.

Have you spoken to the agency?

You need to make the priorities v v clear. Explain why and literally set them out like you would if it was a work project- that’s what it is to her!!! I think it’s unreasonable to expect her to just know based on a couple of conversations. Give her a while and see if any improvement. Could you ask her to document what she is doing? Not in detail but just a list. Or you could create a plan for her for her time and ask her to loosely stick to it. That way she is accountable. I don’t think you can just expect her to know.. I expect it’s not very clear really. X

I just don't buy that. If the job description is to oversee the cleaning that's exactly what it will say. It's almost impossible to get to the point of accepting a job and not understand. And if she was under that impression you would expect her to have asked about other staff and their hours and responsibilities. Particularly if it's an agency hire they will have asked in depth questions about the domestic set up and expectations.

For £45k I'd expect my house to be fucking gleaming! She is totally taking the piss.

Rubbish it is most definitely a first world problem

six bedrooms "biggish" 😂

Good god - she is paid a great salary to work very straightforward hours, and all she has to do is clean and tidy a house? Even if OP left it a complete tip every day, that should be more than enough hours to ensure it was always pristine!

What does she do in that time? I am a SAHM with a 9 hours a week flexible job and also do DH's books. I take the kids to school, clubs etc and shop and cook for everyone, plus admin like paying bills, researching better prices for insurances, looking after MIL etc. I do the gardening and also decorating when I have time. It doesn't sound as though she does any of that? We have a 4 bed detached so smaller house, and I rarely iron - but I'm struggling to see how she can fail to keep your place nice in 8 hours a day?

OK my house isn't always pristine and I have to do a three day blitz when I know I'm having visitors. But honestly OP - she is taking the mick and you need to get rid. A million people would jump at that job and do it properly!

And yes - if you're paying that sort of salary (and presumably holiday pay, pension etc) you are entitled not to unload the dishwasher, and to leave your kids toys out. That's what you're paying for.

I was a nanny/housekeeper for a house that size. I was terrible at it, but what you have described your house should be a show home.

I think you need to be very specific on what you want. Make sure she knows what the rooms should look like at the end of the day.

The room the kids are in might not be perfect at the end of the day, but it should be the first one she does in the morning.

Mondays she will need time to catch up the weekend stuff though. Laundry does take a lot of time. I did five loads of washing on a Monday until I realised the kids only wore the clothes for ten minutes and just put most of it away not washed.

Give her an opportunity to get it right, if she doesn’t fine someone else. I agree with the poster with getting a cleaning team. Have a few people come through a couple of times a week and the house will be clean. If you aren’t overly messy this should work well.

You could also get a cooking person come in to do a few meals for you too.

If you need help with the kids an aupair can watch them a few hours a day and do the tidying.

I would look at what you are paying and find different ways to use the budget to make it work.

She is definitely taking the piss. Or, to be kinder, is not self-motivated and doesn’t have that “drive” to do a job well. A salary of £45k, plus pension and holiday pay (and assuming sick pay) is a good package.

I would maybe look at changing the way you approach this with regards to what you need.

Find a top-notch cleaning company to provide a cleaner for, say, 3 hours a day. Yes, the hourly rate will be more, but the company will have the task of sorting pension, holiday pay etc. Plus, the company will be responsible for providing good staff - they sort any headaches for you.

Then look into employing a part-time (3 or 4 hours a day) personal assistant, one looking to work for a private household. Am sure there are lots of great people in London, maybe who’ve had kids and are looking for shorter hours, that this could suit. Ex-PA’s from financial services, law etc - great work ethic, using own initiative, pro-active - but are struggling to find a role that fits around their current needs, that pays decent money and also means that they’re done when they leave for the day.

They could be responsible for weekly online food order, outsourcing laundry/ironing to a reputable company, keeping on top of life admin (insurance/utility renewals, creating/updating planners for school/family events), checking in with you for an update each day re anything advocating that has come up that you need doing, arranging car service, researching holiday destinations.

The list is endless as to help they could provide, but you would need to ensure that your expectations are realistic. That it’s a part-time role, no hassling after working hours etc.

As an aside, I do agree with your approach re clearing up after dinner, doing the dishwasher. I will never be able to afford a cleaner, but that’s one thing I couldn’t leave for someone else to do, I’d feel like I’m taking the piss!