My sons social worker.

[271726a]

So due to DS who is 16 violence and aggressive/controlling behaviour. I had to kick him out of my house. My younger 3 children have been badly effected by him and so have I. Social services do agree its domestic violence. At the moment we are at the start of Social services where they are doing assessments. Ds is at his sisters house at present.

The social worker who's doing the assessment is very unapproachable, she does not listen. Or really understand the situation. She talks over you and does not let people finsh what they are saying , there for shes not actually gettimg the full situation. My son, my adult daughter, both Said the same. Because of this we asked for her mangers information. We know we have a right to this without being over questioned about it. Anyway she asked me why and I just said I think there has been some mis communication and our situation is not being fully understood. She became very defensive and started making threats to speak to her manager before I do as I'm clearly making things difficult. So I still did not gey the mangers information. By the point I myself had asked 5 times, via email , message and verbally . Both my son and daughter had done the same. In the end my daughter said we will get it another way then.

Anyway I did manage to speak to her manager in the end . I told her that all 3 of us don't feel listend to or understood. I told her how the social worker made me feel intimidated in my own home . To the point I told her if she carries on she will have to leave my house. Which I have never had to do and I don't like the fact I felt that way. I said she's only half listening to things which means she's only getting half the story.

I told the manger If I ask a question. Or an idea, request etc she just starts ranting , it does not work that way bla bla, without no actual explaining or exploring, I can't understand unless she explains it. Instead she's just ranting.

I also told her as much as I don't mind her touching base with my younger children. Ie contact the schools, and talk to them. Buy she's not going to take over our lives and start giving me lists of what we most do etc.

So went through everything with the manger she apologised, and we ended up on the same page . And she's going to speak to the social worker.

But also the manger said this social worker is just doing the assessment. She said its likely my son will go on child in need plan. Then we will be given a new longer term social worker. Which will take a couple of weeks or so. So I'm thinking we should just keep her at arms length and then the new social worker will probably get to know us and the situation better.

Oh just a thought. Could the social worker not being getting half of what we say /nkt fully understand because she's typing as we talk?

It’s important that both parties agree - in the moment - about what has been discussed. So once the discussion has taken place, time should be spent recording the notes which both parties contribute to.
Do you honestly expect someone who may have to do 3 or 4 complex visits in a morning to accurately remember the details of each visit, travel back to base and record it all perfectly?

Families don’t need to agree at all with your assessments, and many don’t. Asking them to agree with your notes at a time when they are anxious and stressed could be considered oppressive practice because it then leads to “you can’t disagree with my report/assessment cos you agreed my notes were accurate and that’s what my assessment was drawn from”.

Besides which, making a record with the family member - after discussions have taken place - is different to sitting tapping on a lap top recording their verbatim responses. I’d still argue it’s not good practice - certainly not trauma informed - bit it is better.

And yes, I could and have managed multiple visits and phone conversations and managed to remember the details of each and record each in sufficient detail to write my assessment or report. I’d then meet with the family to let them read, and discuss, the content of, that assessment or report. That’s where it’s important to have some agreement, which still isn’t always possible.

I’d also suggest if you’re doing 3/4 “highly complex” visits in a morning (so not even an hour spent in each), their either not that complex or you’re scheduling your diary too tightly. Which means writing your notes in situ may save you time, but let’s not pretend it’s good practice.

Like @Sheselectric88 I too have done the job for many years, have observed practice and assessed students across various local authorities - that wouldn’t be acceptable across any of them.

Surely if the sw was typing she can't be 100% listening to what I'm saying . One of the things that showed me this was I had said . I would like my son home as he's my son and he should be at home, but he can't because of how he is. She firmly told me I never said this to her. Apprently I only said the 1st part.

And @Soontobe60 this is what it leads to, a social worker listening for the answer recording that answer as far as they heard it and missing important information.

Listening for an answer, as opposed to listening to hear. Surely if someone was engaged in listening they’d have explored that whole statement further - what impact the situation is having on the whole family, what the families preferred option would be (regardless of whether that’s possible, what the family have tried and worked with already, how it feels to say that about your own child - and therefore wouldn’t have missed the OP clearly stating that as much as she wanted him home, she couldn’t have him home.

And, of course, because some worker will say “I typed my notes verbatim as you were speaking” it’s very hard to argue or have them accept that their typing has got in the way of their listening. Professional gaslighting at best. Put the damn laptop down and listen to your families properly.

Thank you. That makes alot of sense. If made no sense what so ever . If i had just simply said I would like my son home them it would have made mo sense what so ever to go on about the section 20.

I think it might be able idea to talk to DD social worker. As she the only one who seems to be getting it and since she knows us all. They might actually listen to her.

Also DS has said himself it's not a good idea he comes home. He says he feels angry. He was here for a couple of hours the other day. It was all done in a positive Manor. He basically come to use the pool. But he said he felt angry alot of the time even though there was no reason.

I get they want to do some work . But im not sure its a good idea to do that with him home .

I get they want to do some work . But im not sure its a good idea to do that with him home

On the contry, I think it needs to be fine at home.

Work needs doing on the dynamic of the relationship he has with you and siblings. You need to agree on deesculation methods you will employ, ways to establish preventative interactions so he learn to manage home relationships in a healthy way.

That's not one way. It will primarily involve you learning methods, as well as him, and agreeing together on ways to prevent and de-esculate. It will slsi rely on systemic family work, including with siblings. These skills will form part of safety planning to managing his return home - so you can all be safe. These things can only be learnt through implementing and practicing, which requires him to be within the family.

Edit: On the contry, I think it needs to be done at home.

Thats your opinion which is fine. Kind of yhenpoint of the thread. But I don't agree (at least not now) after some meetings/taking etc I may be completely on the same page.

But : some things from my 12 year old : " mummy I'm scared he's going to hurt you " whilst sobbing and hugging me because she's scared. She can't be left in the house alone with him. So she can't even go home. from school. Sometimes he will burst into her room and scream and shout aggressively, because she has music on. She is scared to go into the living room.

My 2 younger ones sit there hugging each other because they are scared of him. They are always doing stuff for him. I asked why . They said so that he does not get angry.

This has effected them pretty deeply and I don't see why ly kids should mot be able to live a normal life or live in fear of him whilst we wait for him to stop with his aggression and violence.

As much as people like to parent blame , blame it on up bringing etc. I will not take the blame for how he is. I have 5 other children and they are not like that at all
My son has even admitted he knows its wrong , that he should not do it. He says he just flips. He's told his psychologist he don't know why he does it.

These things can only be learnt through implementing and practicing, which requires him to be within the family.

I agree strategies need to be implemented and practice however there’s a need to establish safety first, which may need to involve him living elsewhere and working on de-escalating techniques in a more neutral setting before working on reintroducing him to the family home. There’s the safety of 3 younger children to consider as well as the OP, simply putting him back in and doing the work in that context is setting everyone up to fail.

As much as people like to parent blame , blame it on up bringing etc. I will not take the blame for how he is. I have 5 other children and they are not like that at all
6 in total? 3 at home, ds, dd who he lives with or 4 at home? Is there another dc who he could live with for the moment?
Has anyone suggested a tac (team around child) meeting or whatever the equivalent? So not just social work, but housing, health,school etc too?
And intrusive of me, buy where did he sleep at home? Did he have his own room or sharing
?

As I type its son 7, son 8, daughter 12. Normally son 16 would be . So yeah it would normally be 4 kids at home . 16 year old has his own room. My 20 and 25 year old have left home.

He is (temporary) staying with my daughter but her social worker says this can only be short term.

There's a team around the family meeting soon.

Yes 100%

OP I really sympathise - I have been there with my eldest daughter and I also work along side the 16+ SW team - many of my young people come into care under S20 at 16/17 for the same reason - and many of them have loving parents who just can't cope (and shouldn;t have to) with escalating violence - especially when young siblings are at risk.

In my case - visiting 'supported accommodation' on a regular basis in my job I refused to place my daughter into the system - because it's not good enough as it is.

But this meant her siblings often spend long periods of time at their dads or she had to go to her dads - it was extremely difficult, especially as their dad is very old school and intolerant and uses his anger and threats to control the kids (see the pattern!)

She was always sad and angry after she had lost her rag (smashed up rooms, bruises to me, threats to her sisters, broken glass left outside doors at night for us to walk on in the morning) - she refused to engage with mental health support (very ASD in my view with high anxiety) - oddly Covid helped as she could avoid school/college and work alone - but she eventually grew into an adult and her behaviour matured (she still slams the odd door) - she's at Uni now.

However you are stuck between a rock and a hard place - you have more then ONE child to protect - and people saying it's bad parenting can, quiet frankly, fuck off - yes sometimes it helps to have professional support to manage behaviour differently but it not YOUR fault and you are doing your best.

Trust me I KNOW shit parents - they don't care

Not sure of the point of this post except to say you have options - and yes you should talk to your DD's SW - ask for a change of the current one and maybe see if you can find an advocate to support you.

Good Luck

Thank you for posting that it actually means more than you know.

They are saying ds can't go via Section 20. I know this is not true . It even says ds can present himself as Section 20 Need. I have been reading loads about it. I pressed of 30+ pages . Basically I think it comes down to money. There's really no point talking to them at the moment.

What really grates me is if there was DV with a partner they would be on me like a ton of bricks

I'm really hoping ds will grow out of it , things will settle . Simlar to your DD. And that we can all enjoy life. Surely DS can't like being this way.

He obviously has some deep seated feelings/anger that he needs to resolve so it's good he is engaging in support via a psychiatrist

He can present as S20 need - they will always pressure you to take him back - you don't have to and it doesn't make you a bad parent. If you can find space to explain to him why this might be an option and that it's not because you don't love/want him

The reason they resist is partially money (£600+ for a weekly residential place!) but also because, despite what people think, SW is about families and keeping families together as that, ultimately, is what is best for the child when there is love and care in the home. But you have smaller kids that also deserve peace and safety.

The care system at 16+ is not great so if you can avoid it do - but if they are saying he needs to come home they also MUST make that safe for all of you - ALL of your children are important - I hope he can work through his anger - it's an utterly heart breaking place to be - I know x

Was the visit home to use the pool at the recommendation and with supervision of the SW?

I've not read every comment, but I would make sure all of your communication to SW gets copied to manager. Try to put things in an email where possible so there is a record of it and it won't just get lost because SW wasn't listening. Keep everything polite and factual.

My understanding is that there are 2 routes . With the housing side of it. 1 was that he can go homless via the housing department. Which in a nut shell means he get put into some type of temporary accommodation. And social services pay the rent until he's 18. And there no support put on place avd once he's 18 he looses that accommodation and he becomes homeless with no duty to him because he would then be an adult.

My understanding is section20 means he gets put into some type of accommodation suited for him. Where there will be support put in place for him. Theyvwill also have a duty to him till he's 21. Possibly 25 if he gets any diagnosis. This is why I have been bugging them over the section20 route because i thought he gets more support than going the standard homeless route.

Also one thing the manger said to Me which was a bit worrying. Was because of his aggression/violence towards me. It would be very difficult to place him.

And yes my heart really wants him home. But I can't take it from him anymore and the effect on my other children. The past couple of weeks the home has felt totally different.

Obviously my 20 year old can't say what can happen . But he was saying please mum don't have him back the house feels so different. The vibe in the house feels different there's no tense feelings etc. Obviously it's not down to him at all but he was just picking up on the feeling of the home.

What input has his school had?

I understood he might not be attending as things are up in the air but is the SW still talking to them? Even if it's about what's been tried and hasn't worked. It can also be another string to your bow showing you're an engaged parent.

Of course it will be difficult to place him but that doesn't mean it's better to subject you and your other children to him.

They are going to pressurise you to take him back. I had a similar situation years ago when my son had a psychotic breakdown caused in part by weed. They wouldn't help him so I had him removed to protect his siblings. A social worker sat in my house and said no one would take him.... he was too difficult to place... they would stop my tax credits etc (it's laughable now but I was desperate)

He was sectioned After a very short stay in a foster home. It's a cost cutting exercise in emotional blackmail. You can help him in the long run by being strong now. A few years down the line and then what happens? Stick to your guns.

That's what i don't understand why don't they give a fuck about protecting my other children.

We can work towards getting him home . But i think he needs help before he comes back. And definitely for his further to. I don't want him to end uo a DV abuser.

@Ds16dv oh, the irony! It’s fine for you to be physically attacked but potential foster/residential placements might reject your DS because of his aggression and violence. I’m in exactly the same boat as you currently and I have yet another social worker coming to sit on my sofa tomorrow to ‘assess’ us for support; the truth is that there is no support because the services have been decimated. But please know your legal rights; children’s services cannot tell you that they cannot proceed down a S20 route.

Section 20 is generally only used as a very short term fix. Courts are critical of local authorities using section 20 on an ongoing basis - it's generally only meant to be used in situations where the children need to reside elsewhere on a very short term basis, or in emergencies. Any longer and it would have to go through court for a legal order to be put in place, so he couldn't live elsewhere under section 20 long term. You're in such a difficult situation - it's especially hard now due to the lack of support available due to cost cutting and no resources.

Your new social worker should attend the first CIN meeting for a handover (that's how it works in the LA I am in).

I know. But they won't admit it. I have printed it all off. But there's just no point in even mentioning it. Because they won't listen. I'm hoping the next sw will be better. And we will actually get listed to .

I got sw popping in tomorrow because she wants to see where the children sleep 😴 and then thers gonna be a team around the family meeting. Don't see the point . Like how cam you have a meeting if your not actually listening or taking anything on board.

Oh how would we actually proceed down the section 20 route is social services, won't plus ball.

It says to review every 3-6 months and it does not Need to go to court. Even of it was fir only 3-6 months that still gives space and time for hom to get help . Away fro. The home.

Oh, yes, the popping in to check the children’s beds and bedding; so insulting. I run a clean/spotless house (despite the minging teen and her food hoarding inside her pillow and duvet). Honestly, our issues are bigger than beds/bedding. It’s a constant game of ‘computer says’ with SS. We can have a clean home and freshly laundered bedding but we still have issues; it’s not a binary situation.