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Inheritance - karma

100 replies

cheekymaren · 04/07/2023 13:25

I may well be shot down in flames so have namechanged, but I just felt like sharing my amusement at what looks like poetic justice following the death of my father last week. Sorry if this offends anyone - I am mourning for him but my feelings are a bit all over the place.

I always assumed there would be no inheritance from my father who was an ordinary working class man renting a flat with his second wife, with no owned property except a small shed-sized garden hut on rented land, which I was told years ago belonged to his wife anyway. She also owns a flat inherited from her parents which my younger half-brother lives in, but I never even entertained any thought of that as it belongs to her and my half-brother after her.

But after he died his wife brought up his estate and asked me to do my part in obtaining necessary forms etc. During the discussion she casually mentioned that there was a modest pot of joint savings which they had agreed would go to her after his death unless I wished to contest it. I just laughed and said of course not. But it turns out the estate may be rather larger than I ever imagined, consisting of possibly larger savings than she declared (she declared £10k), the hut which in fact is part of the estate and not hers only, and even potentially the flat which, while small, is in a prime location so might fetch £400k, easily.

What got me suspicious was that she was only talking about the estate as consisting of very modest savings of £10k or so, which divided between her and three surviving children would only yield 1-2k per child which is not worth fighting for, but what she didn't make clear was that the two properties are most likely going to count as part of their joint marital assets, and that she was trying to persuade me not to contest the fact that it would all go to her! Before anyone says anything this is in a different country where the widow does not automatically inherit everything if there are surviving children. And by the sounds of it he didn't make a will which would have been characteristic of my father who was very obstinate at not being forced to do anything and didn't want to even think about his death. I think her talking about 'contesting' is misleading as I don't think there is a will at all.

I'm not so desperate for the money as it won't be megabucks anyway, but it's the principle. I have two children who are my late father's only grandchildren so it does surprise me that they wouldn't even feature in my stepmother's calculations. We are not well off as a family while not on the breadline either. My older brother, however, who is a single man, is almost literally on the breadline after a very difficult childhood living with my father and his second wife and having multiple problems due to the trauma.

And while this is an already long tale just to point out that my stepmother and father had an affair and he left my mother and his two children for her, and she was already pregnant when they were still married. And while these things happen, they both went on to inflict much cruelty on us over the years, which has not exactly endeared them to me.

Anyway, my stepmother is carefully manoeuvering away and I think trying to butter me up, but it is increasingly beginning to look like the state will not let her simply claim everything but that we, the surviving children, will see the extent of the estate in due course and can then make up our minds as to what we do. I already said to her that I thought it would only be fair that the proceeds from the sale of the hut would be divided between the four of us.

Apologies for the sketchy details, I'm really not clued up about these things!

OP posts:
MissAmbrosia · 04/07/2023 21:02

Where I live in EU, you cannot disinherit your children. Joint property - if DH died - Dd would inherit his share and if property/shares I would have right to live/benefit during my lifetime. It's more complicated than that but that's the general premise. It's likely though that the other flat would belong to the wife outright and you would have no claim on it. But you would be likely fully entitled to your share of other cash or assets. You need proper legal advice in the relevant country.

Jongleterre · 04/07/2023 23:15

You and your step mother seem to have similar personalities.

I hope a will turns up and it's all left to your brother and the half brother and the two grasping women are left out.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/07/2023 23:26

🥸

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 07:40

Jongleterre · 04/07/2023 23:15

You and your step mother seem to have similar personalities.

I hope a will turns up and it's all left to your brother and the half brother and the two grasping women are left out.

OK, I'll let you know in due course if you get your wish or if I will.

OP posts:
BackAgainstWall · 05/07/2023 07:56

Good for you and your brother.

Zebedee55 · 05/07/2023 08:01

backinthebox · 04/07/2023 16:31

I can’t see how this thread is about anything more than an unpleasant little gloat. Seems to me that OP is nastily scheming just as much as she makes her stepmother out to be. Grief makes people act in strange ways, but from my own experience of the way people behaved in the immediate days after my father’s death the schemers and the chancers were already talking about things like bank accounts and valuations while I was still trying to organise a dignified funeral. They were not nice people.

Yes, I had the same with my adult step children recently. They didn't bother with him when he was alive, but, God, they were all over me asking about his will when he died. I was on my knees, and they worried about anything they could grab.🙁

He hadn't split from their mother until they were well into adulthood, so they weren't ever deprived of a parent during childhood.

However, what they didn't know was that our substantial savings came from two inheritances from my family, and, through our solicitor, was not counted as part of his estate - they were in my name. DH left very little in his estate, although we shared everything in life.

They were entitled to, and got, nothing.

Had they have been nicer to him when he was alive, and when he was ill, I would have given them something.

They weren't, so I gave them nothing.

Karma...😗

QueensBees · 05/07/2023 08:37

Ibizafun · 04/07/2023 19:20

I have no idea as to the legal situation of the country you are in, but morally how could you justify going after a flat owned by her and bought by her own parents? Surely this doesn't make you any better than her??

And still if these two people had divorced, her dad would have been entitled to half of the flat. Despite tte flat being in her name.

I haven’t seen anyone wondering if it was morally ok to do that…

Personally, I feel that the system is a bit bonkers. Either you share everything or you don’t. It shouldn’t sharing everything incl inheritance when divorcing but everyone having their separate stuff in death.

But in that case, there is no ‘morally ok’. It’s the law that should prevail. And either it says the flat (or whatever) is part if the pot and tte children are entitled to X% or it doesn’t. You’d hope that tte law had included that moral side to it.

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 09:09

I'm going to sit back and let the law take its course. When I find out how much there is and if I need to contest something I will make that decision when I come to it.

Yes, I had the same with my adult step children recently. They didn't bother with him when he was alive, but, God, they were all over me asking about his will when he died. I was on my knees, and they worried about anything they could grab.🙁

He hadn't split from their mother until they were well into adulthood, so they weren't ever deprived of a parent during childhood.

Well, that's your story and mine's different. He got with her when my parents were still married and left when my brother was five and I two. I spent every other weekend with him throughout my childhood and a chunk of the holidays, every other Christmas etc. And I haven't demanded anything so far, I asked her about the cottage when she brought up the estate and why shouldn't I?

I wasn't that nice to him before his illness but he wasn't nice to me either. But I felt sorry for him in his illness and at his deathbed. What's going on now is a matter of justice for me.

OP posts:
gemtart · 05/07/2023 09:48

gemtart · 04/07/2023 15:49

Sorry for your loss OP. I also agree it is karma because people who scheme the most, ultimately end up worrying the most. It's fine to worry about getting one's fair share but that's different from being grabby.

Oh dear, I take that back. I don't think it makes sense for you to scheme to take any of what your step mother's parents left to her.

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 10:39

gemtart · 05/07/2023 09:48

Oh dear, I take that back. I don't think it makes sense for you to scheme to take any of what your step mother's parents left to her.

Well my thoughts are that if she is trying to scheme me out of my legal share then the gloves are off and I'll take whatever they will give me legally.

OP posts:
cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 10:40

Integrity, goodwill and honour work both ways.

OP posts:
TimesRwo · 05/07/2023 11:01

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 10:39

Well my thoughts are that if she is trying to scheme me out of my legal share then the gloves are off and I'll take whatever they will give me legally.

That’s how I see it. She is trying to cheat you out of what is yours to ensure it goes to her children instead. As a result, you’re simply getting what is legally yours.

gemtart · 05/07/2023 11:19

I mean, I can sort of see that, but ultimately I would take only what I rightfully felt was mine (anything of my dad's allocated to me). I suppose we just think differently. I enjoy a bit of schadenfreude but I'm not really one for overt revenge.

mrsbyers · 05/07/2023 11:37

I think it’s awful to even consider taking a share of her inherited flat - that should go to her children

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 11:42

mrsbyers · 05/07/2023 11:37

I think it’s awful to even consider taking a share of her inherited flat - that should go to her children

But I'm interested in why you think that, if I'm legally awarded a share of it (which I doubt but you never know)? It's not like my stepmother has acted/is acting with integrity and honesty. So why should I be magnanimous and hand away my potential share when she hasn't been? I'm also a bit surprised that MN, which usually reserves its hottest wrath at cheaters thinks nothing of the fact that any of this is happening at all because she and my dad cheated on my mother and he left his wife and kids. And they never regretted it, ever, no apologies, quite the opposite.

OP posts:
cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 11:52

And if we're talking about morals here, she is not just trying to swindle me and my brother, two adults, but my father's grandchildren who have their whole lives ahead of them and need all the help they can get as we're certainly not loaded and higher education, for example, costs a lot.

OP posts:
Mumof4plusbonus · 05/07/2023 12:15

Your children are your responsibility not his or his wife’s. The cottage is hers from her parents, you would be wrong to touch that. The hut fine that could be split. The savings while joint should surely go to his wife, it’s not a crazy amount. All the money in the world won’t change the past. He’s gone now, you need to draw a line under it and try to move on. You never need to see her again. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Show your children the right way.

Choux · 05/07/2023 13:03

The law is the law. The estate must be divided as per the law. If that means OP gets a share of the cottage then she is legally entitled to it. If the step mother - a native of the country in question - wanted to avoid this she should have taken steps to avoid it by eg gifting it to her own daughter years ago.

Once the estate distribution has been determined as per the law, the question of transfers between beneficiaries can be considered. If I didn't have a close relationship with my stepmother and she was trying to swindle me by trying to hide assets and convince me there was nothing in the estate I would not pass back anything I was legally entitled to.

The stepmother could have done some estate planning. She didn't.

cheekymaren · 05/07/2023 13:43

Choux What you said. I don't know yet what the estate consists of and whether the flat will be a part of it but I'm beginning to wonder. I suspect it's possible she could have transferred it to my brother's name years ago but didn't as she would have had to pay inheritance tax at that point - this I know. I also wonder whether she tried to get my dad to sign something but he wouldn't. He wasn't in many ways very nice but I doubt he would have signed everything away from me and my older brother. He didn't favour my younger brother over us. In fact she told me that while the cottage was in her name they didn't have a prenup (which I think means something different from what it means here) so the cottage is a part of his estate. So the flat may well be as well. And he probably refused to sign the prenup.

She has just messaged me saying it looks like she has to get lawyers involved to divvy up the estate "as there is so much uncertainty how everything will go". That rather sounds like there is more to the estate than £10k!

And just to clarify: there is a flat that was her parents' that my younger brother lives in. The cottage is the hut I mentioned. It's called a cottage but it's tiny so I called it a hut at first. But it's in a very lovely location in the capital so it may well sell for a nice amount, maybe £70k. Then there are savings and their joint possessions such as his books, icons, possibly jewellery...

OP posts:
QueensBees · 05/07/2023 16:07

mrsbyers · 05/07/2023 11:37

I think it’s awful to even consider taking a share of her inherited flat - that should go to her children

Is it?

If the OP’s dad had decided to get divorced, he would have got hair if that.
Are yo saying that people getting divorced should never considered taking a share if that inheritance?

So if it’s ok to divide that asset in half when getting divorced, why is it not ok to do so when one if them is dying??

Could you explain how ut is morally different??

Apart from the fact it’s the law in the U.K. (but might well not be in the country the OP is referring to)

QueensBees · 05/07/2023 16:11

@cheekymaren i agree with you.
The possible inheritance and assets is much bigger.
I also believe that there as ways to protect that inheritance etc… but she never did it (or your dad didn’t want to etc…)

And she is very aware of that.

Which means you might want to get some advice from the notary or a lawyer tbh.
Then you can decide which way to handle things. Expecting to receive what is legally yours isn’t getting revenge. Revenge would be scheming, finding loopholes or pushing fur lawyers so you can get her to the cleaners. That’s not what you’re talking about here.

cheekymaren · 03/08/2023 14:58

Update: she has had a long convo with my older brother trying to twist his arm to not contest the 'fact' that everything will go to her. I'm now sure exactly what the legalities are but I hope to find out from the notary later this month. But for her to try to manipulate him into giving up any claim is really reprehensible IMO. He is vulnerable, has no money even for basic stuff and she made his life hell as a child and young person.

Also, she keeps putting obstacles in the way of the funeral and wake. She doesn't want a proper funeral, no religious elements whatsoever, and no proper wake. Apparently the 'wake' has to be on a separate day to the funeral as she is 'too stressed' to have it after the funeral, which will be a hassle: too lots of getting ready, travelling, socialising etc. It has to take place at her house and we have been summoned to help with cooking and prepping (and no doubt paying for some of the food) although she should surely be able to pay for the refreshments from the estate! I said no to cooking (in her tiny, filthy kitchen with her barking orders) and suggested she order something in or we go out for a meal, but I think she is too tight for that. I then suggested she ask my brothers to help with the prepping as they don't have kids and we are supposed to be on holiday! No reply to that....I suppose it's always the girls' job Hmm

OP posts:
cheekymaren · 03/08/2023 14:59

And no-one is invited to the funeral and wake except immediate family: not his brother and sister who still live, not cousins, friends, my brothers' partners...

OP posts:
Coulditreallybe · 19/10/2023 01:05

I hope things worked out for you @cheekymaren !

RoyalImpatience · 19/10/2023 07:09

Get legal advice in that country.

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