Has the UK changed that much in 5 years?

[Faraway100]

As the title asks really. My husband and I currently live in Singapore and are debating whether to extend his contract here for another two years or move back to the UK.

We would love to be back near our families, however it seems like the UK is very much doom and gloom at the moment. Obviously when we come back we are in vacation mode and thoroughly enjoy ourselves but I wonder if we are a bit blind to the realities.

Has the pandemic, healthcare crisis and rising inflation fundamentally changed how the UK (specifically England) “feels” on a day to day basis? And even if we stayed abroad for another two years would anything change anyways? Hopefully someone understands what I’m getting at 😬

I can’t ask family as both sets of parents are retired and a bit insulated for everything and our friends and siblings would catch on to why we are asking right away!

I don't think it has changed to the extent that you would not enjoy living here if you moved back. But it partly depends on what your financial situation and lifestyle would be like and whereabouts you'd be living.

The main things are that a lot of people are struggling financially so you will often hear people talking about that, and there can be waiting lists to get healthcare.

I think things are also harder for young people than they used to be so you need to think about that if you have children.

I think it's changed . We are economically struggling with no obvious hope of change . We are embroiled in a culture war .
It's not a good place right now .

I would stay where you are for now.

Since 2018?

Yes it feels different.
Healthcare is more difficult to access. It's there but you have to wait, it might be worth seeking out a job with insurance.
Interest rates have risen and I can't see returning to historic lows for many a year so mortgages cost more.
This is making rental properties more expensive and harder to find.

And inflation means yes things are noticeable more expensive.

The pandemic and a brief petrol shortage brought out the worse of the people. The selfishness was on full display it was embarrassing.

Me, I would stay in Singapore, but I can't see any of the above not applying in another two years but hey who knows.

If you have a bit of cash behind you you should be cushioned from most of this.

Its absolutely fine and normal, Mumsnet isn't representative of real life. Yes, there's news stories that sound bad but there always are, same everywhere and always has been.
On a day to day, everything's normal

True about nhs difficulty

I would say it has, and definitely for the worse, the pandemic was a huge turning point, increases in energy costs (although) it’s being reported that the costs will be reducing, average home is still looking at just under £2k a year. Inflation is high, groceries have soared in price, particularly for branded items, such as Heinz etc. but generally across the boards basics are much more expensive. Properly prices has risen sharply, do to the race for space, during the pandemic and now the market is starting to fall, mainly due to rising interest rates, lack of proceedable buyers etc. NHS is struggling more than ever.

of course if you have family here that is a big draw, and the only reason we haven’t left!

come back for a visit and see how you feel. Good luck with whatever you decide is right for your family,

Yes it has rapidly worsened.

All our services began to be underfunded by the Tories in 2010 but the combination of Brexit + pandemic + Ukraine + Truss plus ongoing cuts is now really taking its toll.

We have 7 million on NHS waiting lists, very high inflation, strikes in various industries and pretty much no police response. I can't reliably get a train to a neighbouring town, strikes or not. We have raw sewage in seas and rivers.

There is no sign things will improve short term as a) the Tories simply can't admit it is their underfunding and Brexit decisions at fault and b) it takes time to turn a tanker.

TLDR: yes it is much worse than 5 years ago.

Yes, it has changed in a really disturbing way imo.

The infrastructure has fallen apart. Teachers, lecturers, doctors, nurses and rail workers are constantly on strike. About 50% or more - certainly not fewer - of the train journeys I've taken over the past year have been cancelled or delayed for hours. Basic foodstuffs aren't in the supermarkets. If you are seriously ill, waiting times for ambulances are shocking. Last Christmas an elderly woman collapsed at an event I was at. We all thought she was dying. Her skin had turned grey and she was unconscious. We called an ambulance and were told it would be four hours. She was bundled, half dead, into a car - no medic on hand, and driven to the local hospital. Five years ago, an ambulance would have arrived in minutes.

The NHS is on the brink of complete collapse. The state schooling system is disgustingly underfunded and unsupported. Food prices are rocketing and supplies diminishing.

If you have plenty of money, you may well be okay bit you will still be affected.

I am deeply ashamed of UK these days. I'd love to get out.

This is honestly completely deluded. It is so far from where we were in 2010.
Your life might be unchanged, but the country is visibly struggling. Lying on your floor while an ambulance doesn't arrive is a new low for too many people, for example.

I’ve lived abroad for almost 20 years now. It’s changed a lot in the last 5 years. This visit I noticed women in society are being pushed back very hard now.

Taking the trash out is complicated. 6 recycling bins. I’m at my sisters home and omg half her kitchen is trash cans and figuring out what goes out each week takes up far to headroom. Some management consultants came up with a system which only suits a retired couple.

Laundry, now in the name of the environment, we have regressed into this hell where a load of laundry takes 3 hours. I got cries of run the wash overnight and hang in the morning.

Supermarket deliveries….I went to do click and collect only to have it tell me an order placed on Saturday would be ready to be picked up the follow Wednesday. Absolutely shocking low level of service.

how any household has two working adults and children of school age or younger is beyond me. What can work well is the higher income earner staying abroad while one is in the Uk with the children.

Repeating above, the ambulance delays are real. I kind of was naive to the extent until my DM took severely ill, and there was a 2.5 hr wait for an ambulance. She had sepsis and almost died.

Having lived in Singapore myself, stay where you are for as long as you possibly can.

Hundred percent stay in Singapore
we lived in East Asia for 8 years, came back late 2019.
there were good reasons to repatriate but honestly we regret it, and friends who did similar are now moving back.

It's definitely not in a great place at the moment. My 74 year old mum was give a nearly 3 month wait for a non emergency gp appointment, to manage pain in her hip replacement. She was told to phone back each day to get something sooner, in case someone cancels. There are no NHS dentists. Public services have been whittled down to the absolute minimum, after years of underfunding. Water companies empty sh*t onto out beaches. Everything costs more, wages are being artificially suppressed to try and control inflation which is driven by the ridiculous increase in the costs of the very minimum requirements to live (food, fuel, energy and housing). The government's is hit by one sleaze scandal after another, but people keep on voting for them. Education is in an absolute shit state.

So in short, unless you have no money worries, can afford private health care and Education, and are happy to sit on a beach near a raw sewage outlet, I'd stay well away.

It’s bad and will be no better in 2 years time. If you want to come back, come
now and get used to it. It’ll only get harder.

The East is the future - I’d stay there 😊

I went back last year for a few days. I was shocked at the level of cleanliness, toilets at the airports were disgusting and in disrepair. Same as the supermarket loos. Streets were revolting.

The shelves in several shops were bare in many sections (I went into supermarket, boots and a couple of other places) including many basic food items. Prices seem to have risen compared to before, but still a lot cheaper than where I live.

People in general out and about seemed very unfriendly and the teens who were roaming after school seemed very rowdy.

From family, I've heard very mixed things about healthcare. It seems very random, either excellent care or practically non-existent. It doesn't seem to be area dependent, I'm talking about the same three people (who live in different parts of the country) one week being able to access care and a few weeks later not.

Former Singapore expat here - if you're on a good package, just stay.

I'm looking to move again.

Summer is great in the U.K., come for your holidays but winter is a real grind and with the costs of home heating, just miserable.

We live in Malaysia and were thinking of moving back soon but the reality is that we have a much better quality of life here. The NHS is scarily falling apart, everyone seems to be striking and my goodness everything is so, so expensive. In Malaysia we can go out for lunch and it's a pound for a plate of noodles or rice, we can see a consultant doctor for £20, half day nursery school for DD is £130 a month, it's £10 to fill up my car with petrol, we pay £350 a month for full time help at home. Basically everything costs 5-10x less than it would in the UK and I'm not sure we could earn 5-10x more in the UK than we do here! And even if we did a lot of these things are not accessible in the UK like private healthcare and home help.

I really don't recognise any of this !

I do understand that different local councils have different arrangements for rubbish and recycling but a kitchen full ? Maybe we're lucky but two wheely bins here, one for ordinary rubbish, one for recycling.

Supermarkets. We live rurally but I can order now and get a delivery later today from Sainsburys. Or click and collect tomorrow.

Laundry. A 48 minute eco wash.

The UK isn't great is some respect but your examples seem a bit extreme.

I work in healthcare and the think I’ve noticed most is that people are struggling with being happy, lots of previously content people are now sad, some depressed, about the state of the country and feel a loss of hope for the future.

I would stay where you are for a couple of years and hope that the general ‘mood’ of the country will be better.

It feels pretty normal "on the ground".

Our news is depressing. And of course the government's response to the pandemic, Brexit and the cost of living crisis have made an impact - for instance, if you're planning to go out for a pub meal, you might find that the pub is operating reduced hours due to a lack of staff and high running costs, or has closed down altogether.

Oh and watch out for pot holes (they're now everywhere and HUGE). And try not to need a hospital, if you can help it.

Many cities and large towns have gone down the pan due to failing high streets and the drug/mental health/homelessness epidemic.

But people are still having fun, enjoying friends and family, and the beautiful UK landscape and architecture, as they were before. And we slag off our government non stop (quite rightly) but I believe we're pretty fortunate to live here, and things aren't massively more rosy anywhere else.

@Faraway100 I moved to Thailand for a year at the beginning of 2022. A year later I had to come back to the UK due to personal reasons. It wasn't a choice I made likely, and really didn't want to return.

It's been bloody tough, I'm not going to lie. I fell into a state of reversal culture shock for a couple of months. I'm okay now...but I returned in the winter and suffered a lot of depression due to the lack of sunlight and heat. It really does hit you. Some other things I personally found very difficult since moving back, or things I've noticed that have changed :

• Services are dreadful. I find it difficult to get an appointment with my local G.P. No decent secondary schools for my DC. Lots of anti-social behaviour on the streets. I live in what most MN'ers would consider a pretty, lovely, affluent town. Scratch the service, and the affects of what is happening to people here is quite shocking.
• Winters feel so much colder and longer.
• People are can extremely petty about the smallest of things.
• You will notice the media so much more. Doom and gloom is shoved in your face on a daily basis which can really get you down.
• Illegal immigration is out of control.
• Crime rates are rising and can be scary in certain places.
• NHS is truly frightening. I am genuinely terrified of myself or my family having to use it. A MN'er was posted on here not long ago about her DD having sepsis. If you find that thread, it's worth a read.
• Hardly any NHS dentists now. I am still trying to find money to pay for DD's brace.
• Big increase in cost of living in general - rents, food, petrol, car prices etc.
• Still under a conservative leadership who have no real clue about people or real-life troubles.

Of course, this is just my personal view. I would say if you have money, things would be different. You can potentially shield yourself from a lot of what is going on.

Personally, I would stay in Singapore if I were you. I've only been to the airport there, but my goodness it was amazing! haha. So clean and everyone was so helpful and even the cleaners went out of their way to make sure I got on the right flight. Lovely people. I do miss Asia...

I have lived abroad for a similar period. Things I notice when I go back now. I do think things are significantly worse in the UK than they were.

I notice
Lack of choice on shelves in supermarkets definitely supply issues

Litter. The UK is so dirty

Dog shit everywhere

People are fat and pale

People are constantly complaining and bickering a general feeling of discontent

Healthcare is so much worse than when we left

Schools underfunded with teachers leaving In droves, no consistency for kids

Newspaper and press reporting ...always doom and gloom reporting designed to scare and so Inward looking

Things I go home missing ....

Gravy just not a thing in my country

Roast dinners

English Football matches