Has the UK changed that much in 5 years?

[Faraway100]

As the title asks really. My husband and I currently live in Singapore and are debating whether to extend his contract here for another two years or move back to the UK.

We would love to be back near our families, however it seems like the UK is very much doom and gloom at the moment. Obviously when we come back we are in vacation mode and thoroughly enjoy ourselves but I wonder if we are a bit blind to the realities.

Has the pandemic, healthcare crisis and rising inflation fundamentally changed how the UK (specifically England) “feels” on a day to day basis? And even if we stayed abroad for another two years would anything change anyways? Hopefully someone understands what I’m getting at 😬

I can’t ask family as both sets of parents are retired and a bit insulated for everything and our friends and siblings would catch on to why we are asking right away!

It has, but depending on your financial situation and social circle you might not be impacted that much. None of my friends and colleagues are really talking about it other than as a news story.

But then we're all high earners with private health insurance and our earnings are such that we've not really had to cut back.

Obviously a completely different picture for lower earners.

I am from Singapore and going to go against the grain here. Yes Singapore has a better quality of life in many ways but if you aren't a citizen or at least a permanent resident, the government doesn't care about you. When the economy in Singapore is growing and your employer is paying for everything (heard that private rents in Singapore are crazy), then yes everything is fine and dandy but if the economy falters and people are laid off, you really aren't protected. Singapore isn't insulated from the global economy and the bad times could come very soon. This is why I never moved back to Singapore with a British DH, as I didn't feel he was assured to get PR (application system was quite opaque!). I have ILR now and also managed to buy my flat in London after working in the UK for only 3 years with DH. I can vote and I am entitled to everything citizens are entitled to including tax free childcare (whether DH earns above the threshold is another thing!) For the price I paid in London, I could only afford HDB and the waiting list for a HDB flat alone is 3 years! Of course the hdb system is good in the sense that all Singaporeans can buy their home and it's just a waiting game (while DH and I are the only Londoners we know who didn't use bank of mum and dad) but HDB is probably not an option for you and you can only live in private housing. London is far cheaper than Singapore private housing in the long term, tax rates are higher but at the same time there is the welfare state.

Maybe it's because I am young but other than cost of childcare (maybe would stay in Singapore until kids are primary school aged), NHS (my company pays for my private healthcare) and no subsidized government housing (can't complain that much as I own my property, just that it's a bit smaller than many flats in Singapore which were built for families), I don't feel my life in London is significantly worse. I use the tube and it mostly works. I don't work such long hours. I can get on a plane to Iceland on a Friday and fly back on a Sunday. For me i would make the decision based on salary and also whether I am able to buy property in the foreseeable future in whatever country I live in.

The thing is that OP is on an expat contract and she isn't a citizen.

@wildfirewonder it's far from everyone's experience. A lot has changed but that's always the case everywhere.
You can't speak for me or everyone else just as I can't. It's not delusion, it's lived experiences.
And I'm a lone parent to 3 with no support so I'm not speaking from a place of wealth or denial

I’d say yes it has changed.
lots of people are angry just driving around. I let someone go the other day, he stuck his middle finger up at me. He was a 70+ year old grey haired man with his equally grey haired wife in his new MG suv.

Lots of people are pushy and entitled all of a sudden. It’s like any understanding or patience has gone.

people were talking about being emotional at glastonbury, as it was basically 200,000 being nice to each other and we’ve spent 5 years with everyone being arse holes to each other climbing on each other to just exist.

yes the litter here is another example. It’s grim. We know better yet lots of people just don’t give a shit anymore.

I can’t say if Singapore is better but England is struggling and I don’t know how and if it can be fixed.

I love the UK, it is the best place on earth. Not perfect but where is?

I agree with this. Don’t take your news from mumsnet, it’s so OTT and people love the doom and gloom on here.

This kind of post is baffling. Do you not grasp that ‘news stories’, in most cases, are about actual life, not something generated for tv and tabloids?

The same people would be complaining about singpaore if they lived there. Ok not about the litter as there is hardly any but about everything else. For a start you pay for healthcare in Singapore (even though there is universal coverage, you still have to pay some cash and if you are expat, you have to go private) and its not like people don't pay taxes in Singapore. My cousins in Singapore say I shouldn't complain cos healthcare here is free at the point of access so what do I expect?!

No. Course not

If you're coming back with a decent income, csn afford a nice house in afluent area, you wont
Know any different

Go to London and it's thriving as it always has

I personally would wait two years! As someone who is dual nationality Australian, that Aussie passport is looking soooo tempting right now haha. But I agree, you can’t beat being near family! but in all seriousness, I would book a head a few U.K. visits so you have those in place, and then I personally would extend the contract.

The country is rather fooked atm. Mortgage rates are crazy! So worst time to get a mortgage (but great time to buy cash next year if you can). Food, gas, other bills all basically tripled atm so less money for fun stuff. Everyone is striking atm. Plus, lots of high streets still look rather poo post pandemic and loads of closing.

But! It is getting better! But slowly. And I do bloody love England! The people are great, there’s a club for everything! And kids have fun. So maybe use the two years to start prepping for a permanent return? Decide what you’ll do re house, work, school, area etc etc

and in the mean time book some
holidays so you don’t miss the fam too much.

that’s what I would do ☺️

In all seriousness you should stay in Singapore for as long as possible. The UK has gone to shit and in my opinion is only going to get worse, we’re still a long way off a GE too.

You would miss the civility, cleanliness and order of Singapore so if those mean anything to you do not come back yet.

My job involves a LOT of talking to people daily and I can say that the biggest change is a lack of trust in politicians from ALL AREAS of society, rich and poor. A belief that nobody is trustworthy, which leads to looking after their own interests and being self serving. So the urge to come together as a community and help has also gone.

What will it take to rebuild that trust and belief? Years of stable government which treats people equally and is transparent. People want honesty whilst believing they won’t get honesty.

Better to trust nobody so they don’t get fooled again.

I think one massive change that would help to rebuild trust is stopping hate-filled, click bait journalism that provokes division and hatred.

The NHS is still struggling to catch up from the pandemic, so if you are eligible for free care, please take this into account.

But life in the UK is no different from anywhere else in Europe. We have low unemployment, are not in recession and we don't have riots and violence on the streets every night.

Please note there is food on the shelves!

This obviously depends where you live! We have one recycling bin. Our washing machine still has 30 min or 45 min options? I placed a food shop order last night and it’s coming this afternoon…we are a household of two working adults with young children, child care is v expensive though I’ll give you that one!

Financially? Yes!

My children and I were watching a youtuber who was trying to live off a pound a day in London and the price of 6 eggs was 60p!!!

This was filmed in 2019.

That hit me hard.

Thing is, being a expat is always easier than not being an expat (as someone who returned from the other Asian expat hub last year), because the host country's problems are not really your problems and trying to solve them would probably not end that well for you. Therefore problems in the host country bother you less than they would if those same things were happening in UK. I guarantee MNers would be absolutely frothing at some of the low level (and not so low level) everyday fuckery that goes on in both HK and Singapore.

What is better also massively depends on your package in Singapore- if you're on local or expat package. Generally, as an expat you are well above median income in the host country, so you need to compare like with like. If you're on a local package now and can afford a private GP and schools in Singapore you can probably afford it in the UK, but if those things are part of an expat package and you wouldn't be able to pay for them without it, then your QOL might be better in Singapore. But then again, if you move back into a grammar school area in the UK and your kids are bright, it might not matter.Basically, it is massively situation specific.

Also massively depends on age of children because childcare costs and flexibility are a very very significant advantage in Singapore vs UK, assuming you go for the locally available options and don't import your Norland nanny :-)

If by "normal" you mean no money for any public services. A concerted drive to strip what little freedom and autonomy people have to make even the smallest decision regarding your own personal life (they have even removed your right to protest about any of it).

Life in the UK is basically the following

You will freeze in your own house because they are taking oil and gas away and want you to use heat pumps, which literally do not work. But they don't care.

They want you to walk everywhere, we are being stripped of our ability to travel independently, no cars, just walk or cycle and stay within your allotted "15 minute sector", which you will be fined for leaving.

Forget healthcare, unless you have private cover.

Forget about ever owning a home.

Forget about voicing your opinion on anything, you will be told what to think, say and do. If you object, the police will speak to you about "your thoughts".

If you are lucky enough to have a job, make sure you read the ever changing list of "offensive words" you cannot say. You'll lose your job if you do. But these change almost daily so be careful.

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear, so be prepared to be filmed EVERYWHERE. Your every movement WILL be tracked, CCTV, ANPR, SPEED CAMERAS, DASH CAMERAS, DOOR BELL CAMERAS, PHONE CAMERAS, it's exhausting. They even hide cameras in country lanes to "prevent fly-tippping". It's exhausting.

The UK is shit. Do not even think about coming back here.

The main thing for me is that it is now considered normal to be told to drive someone in need of emergency care to A&E yourself rather than waiting for an ambulance, even for severe emegencies like strikes or heart attacks. That's a country on its knees for me.

Oh wow, so many responses! Have had a scan through and will have a better read when DC are in bed. I did the the responses would be a bit more 50/50!

As several people have discussed - yes we would have a high household income should we return to the UK and access to things like private insurance. While it would be amazing to be around family again would that be worth it if everything else felt a bit grim and should we just stick with summer vacations.

Interested to know where else you have lived to compare?

The worst things imo are:
The government now being almost entirely untrustworthy,
The said government's lack of control over the rising costs of fuel, food and utilities.
The said government's utter hypocrisy in the appalling underfunding of the NHS.

Starting to not feel like a first world country any more to be honest..

Not super helpful but it depends on circumstances.

Everything is definitely much more expensive now and that has a knock on impact to quality of life in terms of disposable income.

However, other than that I wouldn't be aware of any of the other changes if I read the news and Mumsnet less.

Mainly because I don't use healthcare beyond the GP (and our village GP surgery is still very good). We don't have DC so have no contact with education/schools.

We live in an extremely low crime, semi-rural and fairly wealthy area in Hampshire.

I count myself very lucky to be so insulated from everything.

In that case, with a high income you will doubtless be sufficiently sheltered from typical life in the UK.

For people saying basic foodstuffs are unavailable, that's nonsense - it's just a symptom of the just-in-time supply chain which with any minor disruption might fail to supply enough, say eggs, to an individual shop for a day or two.

I commute to London once a week and none of my trains have been delayed or cancelled.

So it can be the case that you can just not notice other than the prices TBH.

I mean... it's really not that complicated and is better for the environment.

I still do my washing exactly as I used to.

When I order my online groceries it can usually be delivered to my door the next day.

I'm not saying things like education and the NHS haven't got worse, they clearly have. But depending on your circumstances it doesn't necessarily mean it feels as grim as people are making out.

I realise we're lucky...but I'm presuming that if you're in Singapore you're probably in jobs that will also shelter you from the worst.