Has the UK changed that much in 5 years?

[Faraway100]

As the title asks really. My husband and I currently live in Singapore and are debating whether to extend his contract here for another two years or move back to the UK.

We would love to be back near our families, however it seems like the UK is very much doom and gloom at the moment. Obviously when we come back we are in vacation mode and thoroughly enjoy ourselves but I wonder if we are a bit blind to the realities.

Has the pandemic, healthcare crisis and rising inflation fundamentally changed how the UK (specifically England) “feels” on a day to day basis? And even if we stayed abroad for another two years would anything change anyways? Hopefully someone understands what I’m getting at 😬

I can’t ask family as both sets of parents are retired and a bit insulated for everything and our friends and siblings would catch on to why we are asking right away!

I live overseas too and left 6 years between visits back. I went back last June.

I was shocked at the uK and how it has changed. The cities and towns seems dirty and neglected, the homeless situation was out of control. I could smell weed everywhere I went, passed the aftermath of a stabbing on a Sunday morning (police tents still up!) and genuinely felt an air of menace.

It made me double down my efforts to stay where I am. Sadly the UK doesn't seem like the place I left 15 years ago...or home.

It’s really sad but things are very different, there’s a feeling of loss, sadness and dissatisfaction generally.
In the past I’d be defensive of our country but it’s almost like the government are trying to wreck it now. Every decision is poor, every change is negative.
Im desperate to move abroad but DH is unconvinced. The litter, poor behaviour etc is terrible. Our nice suburb feels scruffy and poor

I think it’s changed and not for the better.

The NHS is on it’s knees, as is state education and the government don’t appear to care about either.

People seem angrier and far less tolerant, the town centres have tumbleweed blowing across them and there’s more anti social behaviour and selfishness.

NC'ed for this.
I'm from Malaysia. Honestly if you are white and/or rich you will have a great quality of life in any Asian country.
If you're eventually planning to return however 2 years makes 0 difference.
I used to live in London, then an affluent area of Manchester. Now in a slightly less affluent area but still close to the city.
No issues with GP appointments, dirt whatsoever. In fact I went to Belgium recently and was shocked by how run down, dirty and unkept the EU capital was. Not to mentioned being racially cat called every single day when walking back from a night out.

Having said that I do think the NHS is dire for major issues and unlike in Malaysia there's very little option to go private. I'm currently enjoying my holiday here, everything so cheap in pounds but I'm shocked by how much prices have increased since pre COVID. I'd only move back here if I was paid in £ or $. A local salary is definitely not enough.

Our long-term plan is to move elsewhere in the EU again maybe Sweden or Germany but I can't see it working out for myself. Maybe for my white English husband, although I speak more European languages than he does I will never be accepted.

Also OP while I don't disagree that the UK has gone downhill people have to be realistic.
ALL the 'towns and cities' downhill, an 'air of menace'. Who are these people who come back to the UK on holiday and travel all over the country?

Having travelled extensively in the EU there are better, and worse places. You have to come back eventually anyway. Maybe if you hold off for 2 years housing might stabilise, but there's no use discussing how bad it is - unless you have the option to go elsewhere then it is what it is.

And contrary to what I said if you want to enjoy the godlike status of being white and cheap food for a bit longer in Singapore, I wouldn't blame you. No much natural beauty or countryside there though.

Canterbury, Bath, Bristol, and Cardiff are all in the planning stages for this. It's worrying that you seem to think stripping people of the basic freedom to travel is OK, because of "climate change".

The last sentence made me think “this poster has just moved to Glasgow.”
you get used to the phenomenon of “TAPS AFF” when the mercury gets over 15 degrees pretty quickly 😆
Before anyone gets offended I want to say I bloody love Glasgow and Glaswegians. One of the few UK cities I can visit and feel rejuvenated afterwards rather than depressed

@rosetintedmemories2023 exactly.
I don't think Europeans realise just how different Asia is. For a start, human rights don't exist.
It's perfectly acceptable to have an underclass of cheap 'foreign' labour. Equality isn't on anybody's radar.
There's a saying...nice to visit, not nice to be born in..unless into a wealthy family of course.

there are beautiful parks and nature reserves. and you can take a jetty boat to Pulau Ubin.

Yes, small areas, like in London. Which has a) lots of people since there isn't much and b) us being threatened by deforestation.
Malaysia has a lot more, similar deforestation problems but because it's large and most of the country isn't urbanised you have a lot of farmland etc just lying around.

It all comes down to what you want really.

Malaysia is different, but i think being born into an average singaporean family isn't that bad. Your parents will own their own modest hdb flat (or perhaps condo later on), you will go to a decent school, everyone prizes education so they will encourage you to study and go to university. Lots of playgrounds and parks everywhere, its very safe, good public transport (so you are very mobile when you are young). Very stressful culture though, everyone aspires to be 'better' and people are quite materialistic. But its a lot better than the many kids here who grow up in insecure private rental or have to go to bad schools because they don't live in the correct catchment. my DH was from a poor family in London and was on free school meals, i think he would have been better supported in Singapore (if he was Singaporean)

Expats obviously would have a good life, as they are insulated from the problems of the country due to their generous packages.

You will get money from the government for extra curricular activities and school trips. I would probably live in singapore if I didn't marry a Brit but I married at 22 straight after university and UK was the most straightforward place to settle in from a spouse visa perspective. I am settled here with a job and my own home so I don't see the advantages of uprooting myself again.

Also if i have a son in singapore, he would have to serve national service!

I was responding to the way you dismissed the news stories, when they are in fact other people's lived experiences.

The facts on health finding, school.funding, police funding and subsequent services are not in question, to pretend those things are not happening is either delusion or lack of understanding.

To say you are not affected is a different thing.

I myself have not been much affected.

I think there are pros and cons.
As you said it's safe, you get a flat etc but the working culture involves very long hours. I don't know if you ever worked in Singapore having married that young but I have (I haven't been in th U.K that long). Long hours are expected, no flexibility. Also while you're 'encouraged' to go to university not everyone is academic and those that aren't tend to fall by the wayside.
And a lower percentage of Singaporeans are degree educated compared to the U.K.
I found Singaporean employers more judgemental and concerned about academic prestige. Which isn't the best indicator of employment performance.

It definitely has more employment opportunities than surrounding countries though.

I did work for a few months as a trainee in a singapore law firm. I remember working until new year's day that year (2015) and was watching the fireworks from the window! I work in a fintech here, and work from 9 to 6. DH works for an investment bank (in a middle office role) and leaves at 5 pm daily and has hybrid work! the work culture in singapore is definitely a con but at the same time, i grew up with a mum who worked till 11 pm everyday so i guess I don't think its that strange. I have been here for 10 years including undergraduate, and I do find the lack of a 'plan' and social mobility for many of those on lower incomes worrying. It actually gives me a headache sometimes, and causes me stress even though it doesn't directly affect me. i think my mind just rebels at it after growing up under a paternalistic nanny state where the government just thinks of everything on your behalf (and you just need to follow their plan). Its all fine and dandy when there are cheap mortgage rates, cheap food, cheap gas, availability of cheaper housing in commutable suburbs, but what happens when the chickens come to roost?

That is the thing I find most difficult coming from Singapore to London- that things often don't work the way they should and thats just life.

I retire in September and will be leaving the UK. I am advising young people to study hard, get their qualifications and get the hell out! Honestly, on a day to day basis people continue to be people, but I think the country is finished. I wouldn't come back right now, and if there was a better option for quality of life, I'd advise people to go for it.

what countries are they supposed to go to?

USA- a lot of similar problems and very expensive private healthcare to boot (and at least with nhs you can just sit there and wait 5 hours)

Singapore/HK- more expensive than london for private housing. Hard to get citizenship or permanent residency in Singapore/HK is under the chinese government now and you honestly don't want that (I know several wealthy HKers who have fled to the UK for that reason. And if you are not a citizen/PR in singapore, you don't have security of tenure as your rights are tied to your employer. Good in the short term but not in the long term imho

Dubai- similar problem to singapore with regards to visa. You are an expat.

Australia/New Zealand/Canada- all have a housing crisis that makes London look sane. Lawyers are living in sheds in vancouver. Plus very high mortgage rates in Aus now.

Europe- you need to speak the language and a lot of countries i.e. France are less accepting of foreigners. Also found Germany less welcoming than the UK.

It does make sense to go to a low tax jurisdiction and earn a lot of money but people have been doing that for donkey years and thats only for higher earners really (who would do ok in London anyway).

I don’t think
its changed very much except that more people work from home now.

I am fortunate to travel a lot and realise how fortunate we are in this country compared to
a lot of the world, there are so many things we take for granted

It has changed. Mostly as a result of Tory policies coming home to roost (Brexit, chronic underfunding of public services, trickle down economic theory etc) and general global problems (COVID, war in Ukraine), however I don't think it's all doom and gloom. From what I know of Singapore, there is still a smaller gap between rich and poor here, there's less (but still evident) racism. People here are more stressed than they were 5 years ago for sure, but people are still kind and I don't recognise some of pps comments about not being able to get things in the shops or get deliveries, service is crap, but service in the UK has always been crap.
I'm hopeful for a labour government and a quiet change in direction to a more equitable society.

If you don't watch the news I think things are fine. Our media is so awful. Yes there are problems but it's not a doom and gloom place. I'm not sure what your experience of Singapore is like but if you're happy there it makes sense to stay.

It's grotty, miserable, overcrowded, expensive and public services are the worst I've ever known them to be. Everyone is entitled, rude and quick to take offence. Unless you are very well off and can afford private everything and live in a very good area, it's not a nice place to be.

Sorry but I don't recognise so much of what is being said on here. As usual there is so much MN hyperbole.

Everyone is certainly not rude and entitled and it is ridiculous to make such sweeping statements.

Some people really love the "UK has gone to hell in a handcart" narrative though.

I very sadly agree with many of the comments on here However I do take issue with : Everyone is entitled, rude and quick to take offence. This is absolute rubbish. Everyone is never anything.

A lot of people seem to think healthcare is fine if you can go private. Up to a point, but private healthcare in the UK is really only a supplement to the NHS. Ultimately if you need emergency care, or intensive care, or you have a chronic condition, you are back in the NHS. And for lots of insurance plans, the GP is still the gateway to care. So ability to bypass the NHS is limited.
SG has one of the most advanced healthcare systems in the world, it’s internationally renowned for quality of care.

I'm a single mum on a medium salary for the south east. I have a ds on a scholarship at a private school, a mortgage and I was diagnosed with cancer in 2021.

The main differences I see are potholes and public sector strikes. And food prices are maybe 20% higher than last year.

My treatment on the NHS has been brilliant (surgery, chemo, radio, on-going appts) and I haven't had to wait.
I don't have experience of state senior schools so cannot comment.

There is a skills shortage and so employment is easy to find. I live in a mid-market area and many people are going on holiday and living as normal.

I think it comes down to (as always) having a reasonable income, being prudent with money and a bit of luck. Whether it is any worse than other countries, I cannot say.

If you have a high household income I don't think it's bad on a day to day level, but the UK currently functions on those who can afford it paying for healthcare, dentistry, education etc, because the access or service is terrible. Secondary schools have huge understaffing issues to the extent it's no longer uncommon for core subjects like maths and sciences to not have a teacher for a full year even in key GCSE and A-level years, the sixth form near me has withdrawn several STEM a-level options due to a lack of staff. I couldn't really tell you how our 4 primaries are doing as none of them have had an ofsted inspection since before my eldest was born, she's 11. My husband had surgery last year and was told his post op physio would start wihin 6 weeks to give him the greatest chance of full recovery, after 8 weeks he called and was told it would actually be 7 months before they could fit him in.

There are still days out, festivals, plenty of fun things to do if you have the funds to cushion the blow where the state used to be able to adequately provide. If you need a mortgage it will be higher than 5 years ago but rates are still lower than my first mortgage 13 years ago. There has been a significant squeeze on a good 90% of the population though whose household income hasn't risen at the same rate as energy, fuel, mortgages etc all have so the atmosphere for a lot of people is fairly negative. It's a Tory utopia, lots of people having to 'get on their bike' to go to their second or third job to provide a reasonable standard of living for their family.