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Original poster

Are consultants right to strike for more money?

99 replies

mids2019 · 28/06/2023 23:50

To a few of my friends an average salary of 128K would seem reasonable renumeration. Although the job is highly skilled with a large degree of responsibility surely you can survive on 128K per.year?

OP posts:
WTFAreYouForReal · 28/06/2023 23:55

What kind of consultant? A medical consultant?

LittleMrsPretty · 28/06/2023 23:57

I don’t think they are striking for more money. Its the conditions the government force them to work under and leave them apologising g to patients for the long wait at the start of every consultation.

Yellowdays · 28/06/2023 23:59

Oh do fuck off. Most consultants earn nothing near it. They

Yellowdays · 29/06/2023 00:01

Then take off loan repayments and all the other things they have to buy for themselves.

Kinneddar · 29/06/2023 00:02

Where do you get the idea they earn £128k 🤔

nocoolnamesleft · 29/06/2023 00:10

Average salary of 128k? Don't make me laugh. I've been a full time consultant for 13 years and I'm nowhere near that. But the real problem is that the 30% realterms salary drop, the appalling conditions, the punitive pension tax rules (last year I had to pay 5k in tax for pension money that I'm unlikely to live to receive), and the horrific understaffing are leading many, many colleagues to "RLE" - retire, locum, emigrate. Retention is so appalling that at one point I was the only non-locum consultant in my department for over a year. I kept services going, I kept training going, I kept standards going. And it very nearly killed me. I want conditions to be good enough that we can keep vital talent in the UK.

Oh, and for the record, I have never done even 1 minute of private work. But when I had only been working for the NHS for 1 year I had already done the equivalent of 120 9-5 days of unpaid overtime. I can't remember the last year I was able to take all my annual leave, and we don't get paid for it if we lose it.

Let's take one day last week. I was scheduled to be working on the ward 9am to 5pm, then still on the ward until 7pm, called back to the hospital at 9pm, and literally on my feet with no time for even a drink or the loo until 5am. Then had to work 9 - 5 on the ward. Do you fancy doing that? On the plus side, saved a child's life. But was so tired on the way home I can't remember the drive.

Yellowdays · 29/06/2023 00:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

dizzydizzydizzy · 29/06/2023 01:02

Thank you for what you do @nocoolnamesleft

We need to stop the brain drain.

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 29/06/2023 01:08

When a neurosurgeon job is being advertised as ~£30-£50k....yes.

Original poster
mids2019 · 29/06/2023 06:48

Is it conditions or money? Would the BAN accept improved working conditions without a pay rise? If pay rises are limited possibly more staff can be afforded?

OP posts:
NutellaEllaElla · 29/06/2023 06:55

I support them, what @nocoolnamesleft says resonates true to me (allied health professional), if we continue to underpay and badly overwork in these awful conditions, they will leave, emigrate, why wouldn't they? Then where will the country be?

PatChaunceysFruitCake · 29/06/2023 06:58

It's not about 'survival' though is it? It's about being paid what you are worth so you aren't forced to take your skills elsewhere.

gloov · 29/06/2023 07:01

I support striking workers.

It's reasonable to bargain for better pay and conditions. Collective bargaining is good for the economy. But don't take my word for it, ask those radical socialists, the International Monetary Fund: https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/Staff-Discussion-Notes/Issues/2016/12/31/Inequality-and-Labor-Market-Institutions-42987

DataNotLore · 29/06/2023 07:01

nocoolnamesleft · 29/06/2023 00:10

Average salary of 128k? Don't make me laugh. I've been a full time consultant for 13 years and I'm nowhere near that. But the real problem is that the 30% realterms salary drop, the appalling conditions, the punitive pension tax rules (last year I had to pay 5k in tax for pension money that I'm unlikely to live to receive), and the horrific understaffing are leading many, many colleagues to "RLE" - retire, locum, emigrate. Retention is so appalling that at one point I was the only non-locum consultant in my department for over a year. I kept services going, I kept training going, I kept standards going. And it very nearly killed me. I want conditions to be good enough that we can keep vital talent in the UK.

Oh, and for the record, I have never done even 1 minute of private work. But when I had only been working for the NHS for 1 year I had already done the equivalent of 120 9-5 days of unpaid overtime. I can't remember the last year I was able to take all my annual leave, and we don't get paid for it if we lose it.

Let's take one day last week. I was scheduled to be working on the ward 9am to 5pm, then still on the ward until 7pm, called back to the hospital at 9pm, and literally on my feet with no time for even a drink or the loo until 5am. Then had to work 9 - 5 on the ward. Do you fancy doing that? On the plus side, saved a child's life. But was so tired on the way home I can't remember the drive.

FlowersFlowersFlowersFlowersFlowersFlowers

tenbob · 29/06/2023 07:02

Why should they ‘survive’ on their salary?

Medical consultants are some of the smartest, hardest working people in our society.

They should be thriving, not surviving.

I have absolutely no issue with them earning a salary that allows them to live in a nice house, drive a nice car, have nice holidays and not worry about bills. Their £120k salary has to pay all sorts of expenses such as their professional exams so that’s not their net income, and even if it was, that isn’t an amount that lets you live a high life.
Plus the hours and rotas mean a lot of docs have to be single income households

We are pretty fucked as a country if we think the acceptable pay levels for some of the most useful and important people in our public sector to be set at a level where they can merely ‘survive’

Perfect28 · 29/06/2023 07:03

Solidarity with all striking workers. The government are taking the absolute piss and if you are even questioning it OP then I suggest you reassess your priorities.

iloveeverykindofcat · 29/06/2023 07:04

If you a worker and don't support strikes, you've misidentified your own interests.

Simonjt · 29/06/2023 07:10

A family member is a consultant, she doesn’t earn £128k, I bash buttons in an office, work fewer hours, I don’t risk killing or seriously harming someone. Despite that I earn more than her.

sandberry · 29/06/2023 07:13

the UK needs to realise it is a purchaser in a global marketplace. If it wants doctors it pays the going rate or it loses them to elsewhere or pays them all more as they locum to cover the gaps their own absence from the workforce creates.

It’s not about what you think they’re worth, it’s about what they’re worth to everyone else. There’s a global shortage of healthcare workers, the measly NHS pay rise may have been accepted but it’s not competitive and it won’t keep nurses/midwives etc in the UK or working for the NHS. The same is happening with doctors.

It is cheaper to pay high basic pay than cover gaps with pay that attracts them back plus an agency fee. It is better to pay high pay than to have no doctors/nurses/midwives at all.

In a time of shortage and with a globally aging population increasingly in need of healthcare, healthcare workers will become increasingly valuable. We pay up or we consider less palatable solutions like involuntary euthanasia or healthcare rationing.

Comety · 29/06/2023 07:17

Is it about the money? Surely they wouldn't have the nerve? 😆 A friend has been organising the junior doctor strike cover and at her hospital consultants are being paid £263 p/hr to cover striking junior doctors.

AutumnCrow · 29/06/2023 07:43

Having read what @nocoolnamesleft posted, yes I do support the hospital consultants. And of course they have the right to strike, or take other forms of industrial action to be heard and appreciated.

OdeToBarney · 29/06/2023 07:54

nocoolnamesleft · 29/06/2023 00:10

Average salary of 128k? Don't make me laugh. I've been a full time consultant for 13 years and I'm nowhere near that. But the real problem is that the 30% realterms salary drop, the appalling conditions, the punitive pension tax rules (last year I had to pay 5k in tax for pension money that I'm unlikely to live to receive), and the horrific understaffing are leading many, many colleagues to "RLE" - retire, locum, emigrate. Retention is so appalling that at one point I was the only non-locum consultant in my department for over a year. I kept services going, I kept training going, I kept standards going. And it very nearly killed me. I want conditions to be good enough that we can keep vital talent in the UK.

Oh, and for the record, I have never done even 1 minute of private work. But when I had only been working for the NHS for 1 year I had already done the equivalent of 120 9-5 days of unpaid overtime. I can't remember the last year I was able to take all my annual leave, and we don't get paid for it if we lose it.

Let's take one day last week. I was scheduled to be working on the ward 9am to 5pm, then still on the ward until 7pm, called back to the hospital at 9pm, and literally on my feet with no time for even a drink or the loo until 5am. Then had to work 9 - 5 on the ward. Do you fancy doing that? On the plus side, saved a child's life. But was so tired on the way home I can't remember the drive.

Thank you for what you do 💗 you and all of your colleagues deserve adequate pay and conditions. We spent a lot of time in paeds A&E and the CAU in the last year and the sheer amount of work to be done is staggering.

Sluj · 29/06/2023 07:57

I absolutely support them, one day I might need them! They also need to strike so that the junior doctors following on don't quit the country or service. These junior doctors have nearly a hundred grand of tuition fees to pay back, no great pension and have to pay for all their exams, indemnities and essential memberships (as do the current consultants). They are all highly trained and vital to the country, we need to pay them so they do not leave.

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