Are consultants right to strike for more money?

[mids2019]

To a few of my friends an average salary of 128K would seem reasonable renumeration. Although the job is highly skilled with a large degree of responsibility surely you can survive on 128K per.year?

@sandberry is spot on
There is a lot of focus on 'greedy' doctors because the government want to sow division (this lot are particularly fond of this) because it supports their course of action
The thing is that due to the international nature of the market it just means that we lose out.
If they had tackled this head on properly engaging in negotiations then we wouldn't be paying so much for locum cover, terrible retention rates and struggling to recruit, all of which costs money. However the government has failed to properly sit down and actually engage with most of the unions that have voted to strike and have dragged this out hoping somehow that it will miraculously solve itself.

Yes, I blame the bloody government, not doctors.

I think pension rules need to change, either lift the limit or allow sacrifice of pension contribution in exchange for higher wages now. Something needs to be done to attract and retain.

My only concern about striking for higher wages now is the inflationary effect, so many public sector workers striking at this point in time for higher pay. If inflation keeps going up interest rates will rise again and that will hurt everyone.

OP, they can survive, you say? Well, that’s ok then. I mean it’s only fucking 2023 in one of the world’s richest countries. That’s the limit of our aspirations for some of the cleverest, most educated and most dedicated people?

There is no inflationary effect of higher wages. It’s a bit of a myth pushed by the right wing media.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/does-public-sector-pay-drive-inflation/#:~:text=The%20correlation%20between%20public%20sector,true%20for%20private%20sector%20pay. First I came across in a search but there’s plenty others.

I support their strike. Really hate goady threads like this.

And why should public sector workers suffer years and years of erosion of conditions and no pay rise to spare the economy? We are all in this together but it doesn't seem like it to public sector workers.
Please don't go on about gold plated pensions, no one has those anymore and they haven't had for many years.

Agree with PP that the government are at wrong here not the doctors.

They have created a situation where some of the most hardworking and commited people in the country have little choice but to take strike action.

Yes I support them.

The government and media are making all striking workers out to be greedy.

So many lies printed about earnings , t&c's etc.

This is a really important factual piece and it’s negligent of the BBC to not be quoting it at ministers.

Stuj
"They also need to strike so that the junior doctors following on don't quit the country or service."

Lots of consultant posts are unfulfilled. Thats putting enormous pressure on the rest, and those "juniors " just below them.

Med school places may be gradually increased, we hear, but there is no mention of training posts for those already just qualified. This is an issue, because there's an increase in those without training posts, and a growing perception that it's deliberate-a plan to up the number of doctors but keep lots at the bottom, breaking career progression, and lowering the wage bill. That's another reason they are so fed up.

Also the £100k tuition is increasing annually at 6%

^^This.

If workers don't strike (the only power we still have really!), how will things change?

I support them wholeheartedly. If we want to keep talented medical professionals then we have to pay them what they are worth. The radio this morning stated that consultants in Ireland are paid £150k compared to £82k here.

I fully support them. The oh and conditions are terrible compared to what their peers across the world experience. The government needs to wake up to the fact they are competing for these roles in a global market and the rest of the market offers far more favourable terms.
I really feel that in a decade, we will be going abroad for our medical care to access the best treatments and staff. The world has been coming here for decades, now we will be going elsewhere

@Yellowdays and it's important to ask who is going to be training all these new medics? Medical training generally relies to an extent on existing drs to train & support new generations
If there is a lack of existing drs, then there then there is no slack to support training as they are too busy trying to fill gaps in rotas and just do the job. You can't just magic up people to train & supervise more new drs or have the time to do it within a short staffed system.

It's not much considering how many patients life are being saved by them in one hour's time and how many junior doctors they amount to. Plus, they're being exploited by the government to work on a minimal salary and constantly squeezed to see more patients. Please correct your concept, NHS may be a charity but the employees are not. Doctors are being morally blackmailed on a day to day basis to save people's lives without eating or drinking, this cannot be sustainable, just like the £263/h salary won't be sustainable to the NHS. Increase the basic pay then everybody will be happy.

My husband is a consultant. His first consultant post he was contracted to work 48 hours a week but often worked 70-80. Now he was paid 120% of the consultant Salary for that (as he was contracted 48 hours not 40) so was about £85-90k in 2010.

But fuck me equivalent of 2 full time jobs to get it. Kids had no idea who he was.

On call one weekend in 4 (8am saturday to 8am Monday and definitely in the hospital 8-4 both days plus overnight on call). On call once per week. So phone rings at 4am, some poor bastard is dying 20 mins drive away, run out the house half dressed and either stay up all night or maybe catch a couple of hours sleep on your office floor (as they took away the bed) waiting on test results and then show up 9am to get through your 10-12 hour day.

He quit that job after a few years and took a standard 40 hour job. Easily does 50-60 hours. Went to work last week for a 9am-9pm shift she appeared back at 1am.

And if you fuck up people die. Even if he doesn’t fuck up people die, right in front of him, as he’s working on them. Then he tells their relatives they are dead.

but you know, probably overpaid..,

@Counciltelly Well said.

There'll always be someone coming along saying (1) some bad doctor failed them or someone they know, or (2) they can't have it because I won't allow them to get "a large house and private school for their kids", or (3) other HCPs get less, etc, etc

A very real alternative to reinstating fair comparable pay is £20k annually for basic health insurance which won't cover major conditions costing most of 6 figures or more to treat, which some of these very same people have received free treatment for. The politics of envy are a crass tool employed by the Health Secretary, Chancellor and PM to mobilise the braying envious crass people.

Humans are entitled to withdraw their labour, and doctors are the least inclined workers to do this, so it's clear how bad the situation is that both juniors and seniors are out this month.

Some incompetent politicians failed us all. Can we stop paying them? Or at least stop bloody voting them in again repeatedly, masochistically.

Perfect post

Was looking at threads here and newspaper comments to see what the public think on the day before the consultant strike.

so heartened to see a vast majority supporting us. Most people not fooled by goady headline wages, and able to see the pay scales as they are. £88k for full time consultant job, getting to £119k only when you have been an NHS consultant for 20 years- so maybe in your late 50s

It’s hard to recruit consultants to these jobs when they would start on 88k in UK but 215k starting on Ireland for example.

there are plenty of vacant consultant posts, even in very choice locations that would have see multiple applicants 10,15 years ago.

the offer Rishi has made shows that while the government value city banking workers and needs to keep them and their bonuses happy, otherwise these fab peeps will go abroad…. he doesn’t feel the same for NHS consultants.

35% pay erosion is unacceptable to all the consultant who have voted to strike. The juniors training now are unlikely to take up consultant positions in the uk when they can set up far better remunerated lives elsewhere on e they have completed their training. The strike is for consultants now and to ensure there are future consultants. Ultimately the strike is for the public that use the NHS- so that there can be a staffed NHS to treat them.

Thank you for supporting the strike.

Yes , they need paying more