Just wow at the student loan changes… eeek

[juliajo]

Students beginning university study this year upon completion of their studies will have to pay back 9% on earnings above £25,000 (aka, almost all full time wages now pay rises have been granted - national living wage is not far off that even if you decide to work in a supermarket after going to uni). It will now need to be paid over 40 years too so most of your working life, right through the expensive mortgage years and childcare years etc

I think this is catastrophic tbh and removes some of the incentive in education. I really hope schools spend time making sure cohorts fully understand the financial implications of university study, and think really carefully about what subject they choose. It’s a huge decision to make at 16/17 (when applying)

Get her to speak to some current students and graduates about how the system works. It can seem like a huge burden as a young teen when in fact it basically behaves a higher tax rate for having attended uni. It doesn't count against anything important like mortgages etc.
And obviously her prospects will be so much better if she does

How can you have possibly worked a FT job and studied FT too? Surely you had lectures, tutorials etc to go to during the day, so where are the employers who will employ someone FT who will also allow them to go off site to attend lectures and tutorials etc?

Yes, I had 40 hrs of classes per week as part of my course, then worked evenings until 3am and weekends full days again until 3am, equating to full-time hours. My employer did not own me, and I worked for them during my own free time, not during my uni time. As another poster has confirmed, this is totally doable as they have done it themselves, as well as their sibling. Lots of my uni mates did the same. It takes dedication, commitment and hard work.

I don't believe you. You may have had 40 hours contact time, but what about the hours and hours of studying/working on projects and presentations and essays and exam revision on top of this? I don't believe that anyone could do all that on top of 40 hours of contact time then work until 3am, get home and then be out the door for 8am every single day. Then work all day at weekends. I don't believe that you were producing quality work or passing difficult exams on a few hours sleep each night with no other spare time. There aren't enough hours in the day.

Did you not have to produce any coursework? Essays? Presentations? Visit the library? Group study sessions? Revision? Exams? There are only a finite number of hours in the day however you dress it up.

But you won’t have to pay. And she will only have to pay back what she borrows when she’s earning enough, and it’s over 40years unless she wants to pay it off early so it’s actually fine.
Its a good incentive for people to not take Mickey Mouse degrees for no particular reason.
what is worse is the lack of loan availability for kids if middle income earners. If you’re rich you don’t need it, if you’re poor you will get it, if you’re middle income then only the fees get loaned and you’re supposed to survive on thin air or work so hard in a bar or whatever that studies suffer.

Then I guess you'll also not believe that I came top in the course and won a cup at graduation for it, made the national newspapers! I always took a fortnight off work during the annual exams. I would never have jeopardised my studies, they were my priority, working was just to fund it.

Yes, of course. I was very organised. When necessary, took time off work. Always took a fortnight off once per year for exams. Came top in my course, won an award (a cup) for it. Not trying to "dress" anything up. Just saying what I did. I'm not the only one, plenty of others have done what I did. It's not much different to working 70-80 hour weeks which I also did whilst working full-time after my studies. I was a very hard worker when I was younger. I'm too tired these days for that malarky now lol

i get my student loan taken out of my account and let me tell you it's not 38 quid its over 250 of my wage and mine is the old plan

People are saying they did 9-6 taught classes (8 hours plus lunch) and in addition worked 37.5 hours. So 9-5.30 (8hrs 30 min lunch) sat and sun and over 4 hours every week night 😆😆

I think as a country we really should be embarrassed about how much we’re screwing over our young people and there needs to be a redistribution of tax burden.

My daughter has an MA from a Russell Group plus a Distinction in her masters. She’s on 24K - after year in the job and a pay rise.
As a teacher, (hourly rate about a tenner an hour after tax) I feel no longer able to encourage students to aim for university.

Noone does this.

Hopefully it’ll stop kids going and doing no brainer degrees that they’ve not got a hope in hell of using in a job and that way they won’t have a lifetime of debt, about time these kids considered a career where they get a trade and earn decent money, I think there’s a real issue of pushy parents getting them to go to uni for the sake of it coupled with kids who don’t like graft and would faint at hard work. Just my opinion and maybe those that don’t like it coz it’s a bit close to home!

I was wondering this too. If you borrow fees plus minimum maintenance loan that’s still around £40,000 so if you are paying any more than £1,000 per year back in loan then you are paying back more than you borrowed. What kind of salary would you need to be on to pay £1,000 per year ( £83 per month) student loan?

The lifelong learning entitlement isn’t for full degrees

OK, willing to stand corrected but what is it for then? That's how it was being sold to me as a Governor of a college that has a university centre attached and offers degree level education.

@TheSnootiestFox

Right - I just revisited the legislation!
It will replace student finance, but will be more flexible. It only goes up to L6, so Masters and other postgrad degrees are not affected. It will make it easier for people to access funding if they already have a degree. So they may be able to fund L5 industry qualifications or technical qualifications. It looks like it would be really good news for FE colleges who offer HTQs

So because it’s unfair for young adults- and they are 18/19 when they take out student finance not 15/16- we need to see a loan as a tax? That seems a bit deceptive?

I posted this upthread. This is the calculation This is Money did for new system (plan 5) starting this September vs the old system (plan 4).

It’s based on £45k of total student loan debt. Starting salary presumes you start at that salary after graduation and then you get pay rises the next forty years.

Apparently Winston Churchill is meant to have said "keep the working classes out of the library's and in the pubs" basically they should know their place. This is basically the modern version of that same thing. without the pub obviously!

Oh, I should mention the calculations were done in early 2022 before the interest rate rises. This would affect the total repaid for anyone who gets to pay off the loan + interest. So the total repaid in the chart is lower for middle and high earners than it will actually be.

Then there is all the banks that swoop in on the freshers offering overdraughts and credit cards because it’s the start of you used to being comfortable with being in debt.

@ReleasetheCrackHen thanks but that chart doesn't make sense? Haven't there got the current and new the wrong way round?

Isn't it the case that under the new plan you pay more overall than current plan? Because you start paying at a lower threshold and pay for 40 not 30 years?

I think it's under the new plan you would pay the £100k+.

I suppose the question is could you get a job with the same salary trajectory without a degree? I think you probably could depending of course what area you go into.

I am shocked at the difference in pay back between a starting salary of £35,000 and £40,000!! Are the changes between the old system figures and new system figures based on high earners paying it back earlier than they would have done? Or is it interest rates? I might be being a bit stupid but if students borrow £45,000 on the old system the threshold is higher and the term for repayment is shorter, the new system has a lower threshold and longer repayment term so what’s causing the massive difference in repayment amounts for high earners? Surely they pay it back early on the old and new systems?

Nail on the head there. Too many people are doing degrees just for the sake of it. As another poster said "for the right of passage". We're desperately short of manually skilled people - it started in the 70s with scrapping the sec mod/technical schools but made worse by Blair's 50% stupidity. We've far too many getting degrees and ending up in minimum wage "unskilled" jobs who could have been earning more and being more useful to society doing practical things instead (where we have massive shortages).