Is there sympathy for consultants striking?

[LadyTemperance]

Just as the thread title says, do you feel sympathy for the consultant doctors pay demands. I understand their pay has not gone up for many years meaning they have had a cut in real terms. That being said a quick google tells me they start on 88k and have regular pay rises not based on performance.
They are hardly on the bread line are they?

Consultants don't need sympathy, they can and do take jobs all over the world where pay and conditions are miles apart from the UK.

We need them more than they need us.

For the first time DH is actually closely looking at the job offers on the table. Even a restorative rise wouldn't come close to closing the gap with most of the rest of the world.

I agree, sympathy isn't the right way to frame this. Because none of the fundamentals here are affected by people's feelings.

It's a labour market issue. We need consultants, there aren't enough, we're going to have to either make them a better offer or do without. I prefer Option A.

I don’t think it helped listening to the JD whinging that he needed his pay rise because he could only afford a semi detached house.

That is what we are up against.

30/35% pay demand is ludicrous. No government party of any colour will ever pay this or could even consider it.

Or Option C

Pay them ‘reasonably’ well. 7% pay rise and a lump sum as a thank you.

No. They're well paid by any measure.

I disagree, for those starting on £88,000 pa anyway. They are not well paid, compared to people at a similar level of experience in other professions in London at least; where the COL is probably the greatest.

So your argument is what?

People's lives aren't worth very much?

How do you know this isn't another version of Option B?

Because this is what it comes down to. We're going to have to pay them enough to keep them. It's only them, in the end, who get to decide whether it's 'reasonable'. Nobody else's definition actually matters. The only part we get to decide is the point at which we're willing to do without consultants because of costs, which is not the same thing.

Apparently not, according to you.

Erm, what also matters of is those that are footing the monstrous bill.

It is most odd being on this thread, one can sense the outrage that anyone could possibly disagree with these ludicrous pay demands - so used to their Oxford union echo chamfer of consensus, and the unmitigated adulation of the public they actually seem to imagine that medics are above reproach, their worldview Is the only truth and they can demand as much money as they wish, regardless of the suffering and outcome for the rest of the country.

The arrogance is staggering - literally breathtaking and the sense of pure entitlement.

You haven't answered the question. How do you know your suggestion isn't Option B?

You're also mixing up two issues here. Public disagreement matters when it comes to us deciding whether we think the demands are worth it or whether we'd rather do without consultants, ie the second part. It doesn't matter when it comes to whether people with a particular skillet are willing to work for a particular wage or not.

I'm not at all interested in discussing people's value judgements about whether that's arrogant or not, because it makes no difference to the fundamentals.

Never mind whether you support them or not-

It's fucking terrifying that they feel the need to do this.

Doctors literally stop you are your children from dying.

We should be terrified that the government have let it get this far.

THEY have done this, THEY are in charge, THEY are to blame.

We need a general election soon.

That's the long and short of it.

Doctors are currently leaving the country in record numbers.

Never mind anything else.

I will put it simply. You will get zero support for demanding a 35% pay rise.

Feel free to work elsewhere but you won’t achieve anything like this, because it’s entirely unaffordable.

Reducing your life’s work to nothing short of gangster behaviour is a matter for you.

What would a GE achieve? Labour couldn’t agree or afford a 35% pay rise either!

You are sounding deranged.

@GCalltheway

So what do we do when they all fuck off to Australia?

You still haven't answered the question.

How do you know your 7% plus bonus suggestion isn't Option B?

They won’t! For goodness sake don’t be sucked in by that. They have a great deal here especially in the latter stages of their career. Gold plated pensions and a living environment that doesn’t include sweltering in 48c heat.
They have good private schools for their kids, lovely homes and job security.

I have worked in Dubai. It’s not fun living on a compound and the schooling is below average.

Are you feeling okay?

Are you going to answer the question?

@GCalltheway whether you support the strikes or not doesn’t matter. You need doctors more than they need you. Your opinion is irrelevant and you sound incredibly jealous. If the consultant/JD strikes don’t have public support it’s not a problem. People are not going to stop getting sick or coming to hospital.

I’m not sure Labour can meet all the demands either.

@GCalltheway

But that it what is actually happening. I'm witnessing it.

I'm taking it you're fully conversant with NHS staffing data and current UK healthcare outcomes data?

No? You just like to fling insults and talk nonsense?

The way we're going, you'll be lucky to get ten minutes with a herbalist or homeopathy wingnut to treat your metastatic lung cancer.

But hey, at least we won't have overpaid doctors!

No.

@SunnyEgg

No, they would be unlikely to be able to meet a 35% payrise immediately.

However, they're likely to stop doing all the stupid things that make working in the NHS more difficult.

Shocker.

It's ok though, I can piece it together from what you've written.

You think 7% and a bonus amounts to an option C because of vibes, basically. It was just something you pulled out of your arse because it fits your subjective definition of reasonable.