Is there sympathy for consultants striking?

[LadyTemperance]

Just as the thread title says, do you feel sympathy for the consultant doctors pay demands. I understand their pay has not gone up for many years meaning they have had a cut in real terms. That being said a quick google tells me they start on 88k and have regular pay rises not based on performance.
They are hardly on the bread line are they?

It’s depressing reading some of these replies.

Think about the level of candidate who has traditionally been trained into medicine, they’re immensely bright and well qualified. But what’s the incentive now to train to be a doctor? Intensely pressurised working conditions where life and death is within your hands, where a simple mistake can lead to a lifetime of guilt, and because of the erosion of pay you’re not even being paid what you’re worth.

My neighbour is a plumber, he says that plumbers can now earn £150k, he finishes at four each day and looks happy. He sings when he wanders around the garden. My hospital consultant husband comes back with the weight of the world on his shoulders, he’s constantly contacted out of work hours, he is physically at work for many more hours than most people. I actually don’t know how long he can carry on in the same way without breaking and he’s in his forties.

We will only attract good candidates into medicine if we value them accordingly.

If my kids attain the same level of academic achievement as my husband no way would we encourage them into the NHS. Absolutely no way. The private sector values their employees more and pay is better for that level of candidate. We know someone who earns hundreds of thousands a year working in the financial sector. That’s the kind of job these bright kids will go for instead. Then where does that leave our health system?

Also the consultants aren’t striking just for pay, it’s patient safety, retention of staff and working conditions too.

They have put in years of hard work to get to where they are…ie very qualified and specialised…in charge of health…so yes I fully support them.
people who don’t sympathise with them because “they earn more than most” are just jealous…maybe the jealous ones should work just as hard for all them years, get into student debt, have the constant moves whilst junior doctors…then see if they feel they are paid enough 🙄

@bozzabollix - and on top of that having to be undervalued by the people they serve, told they are greedy to expect wage protection.

I'll just leave this here....

Tony Goldstones latest updates on what the NHS industrial action is all about.

Goldstones threadreader link

@FixTheBone that thread is stark. But certain people on this thread don't want actual facts.

Yes because they are highly skilled and should be paid accordingly.

No. Many consultants who are paid at public expense to be trained, work only 2-3 days a week in the NHS and supplement their income with lucrative private health work. So their NHS contract is a valuable multiplier for their private earnings which can be 3,4 or 5 times their NHS rates. I've had the experience of meeting the same consultant in both private and NHS settings, as did my elderly parents with a different consultant and the difference in behaviour and care taken was stark.

I read this often on here, but our local Trust are very clear, Consultants have to be on a full time contract to be allowed to do private work.

But even if it were not so, by the time a Dr reaches Consultant level the NHS has already had their monies worth out of them! Oh and medical school isn’t free by the way.

I think most trusts apply that rule @MissyB1. Our local God of Cataracts does a private op or two after work and private outpatients in his lunch hour.

It's not true - only about 58% of consultants are on a full time contract - they do have limits on the private work they can do. Part timers don't have the same restrictions though they do have to have a career plan with their trust. Its been reported that doctors have been doing private work on their strike days. The consultants I know do a combination of NHS, academic and private work. Porsches and land rovers in the garage.

This is nonsense of course.

I assume the consultants you know are those near retirement.

What it shows is that consultants are not being paid their market rate in NHS employment. If the ones doing private work and reducing / stopping their NHS contracts can afford land rovers / Porsches, consultants reading this should take the career advice and get the hell out of dodge.

The NHS starting salary is 88k for a consultant. So about 1/3 of salary for new consultant in Ireland. And well below what they would earn privately.
Don’t know why anyone would bother with a direct NHS contract then these days.

Consultants are yet to strike. If they are running private clinics on the junior Dr strike days that is up to them.

I agree the optics are poor of doing private work on strike days, but this would only be permitted if the consultant did not have any NHS activity in that time.

Their private work is with a separate employer, there may even be an argument that they were in breach of contract if they didn't show up for previously arranged work with an employer they aren't in dispute with.

I think you're probably conflating two things here.

Consultants wishing to private plus NHS work must offer their trust an 11th session (10% more than fullntime) in order to keep all of their NHS pay and pension benefits including pay progression and awards.

A lot of consultants work less than full time, either for work life balance, or increasingly to limit their pensionable earnings so they don't get slammed with £30k tax bills.

I suspect, but don't know that the less than full time consultants and NHS consultants doing private work don't have much overlap.

“Porsches and land rovers in the garage”

and your point is??! They’ve worked hard to be a consultant, they can spend their money how they like. Can they wear nice shoes or clothes or would you be annoyed about that?!
Like someone said earlier…to be treated disrespectfully by the people they’re actually helping is just plain bloody rude. The public has such a “me me me” attitude now. Growing up I was taught to always respect teachers, doctors and always use manners. None of that is done now

The public has such a “me me me” attitude now. Growing up I was taught to always respect teachers, doctors and always use manners. None of that is done now

That cuts both ways! A consultant once told me to let DD, aged 14 have a choice in what school she went to - she flatly refused to go to either of the schools, he suggested and chose school C. The next appointment, he shouted at me for not sending her to one of the two schools he recommended! What did he think we were supposed to do - drag her out to the car, kicking and screaming, lock her in and drive off with her?

No sympathy from me

So, to summarise: 60% of medical school graduates are female, and 58% of consultants work less than full time.

Yep, I’m not sure why that poster was 100% certain it is so they can devote their time to their private work, and not because they have children or other caring responsibilities. The part time consultants I know have young children or, at the other end of the age spectrum, have partially retired.

As soon as a profession becomes predominantly female, the powers that be behave differently towards it. They under value it and underpay. Because they think women will put up with crap treatment

You can compare and contrast the pay and conditions of tube drivers and police and fire service with that of teachers and nurses