Is there sympathy for consultants striking?

[LadyTemperance]

Just as the thread title says, do you feel sympathy for the consultant doctors pay demands. I understand their pay has not gone up for many years meaning they have had a cut in real terms. That being said a quick google tells me they start on 88k and have regular pay rises not based on performance.
They are hardly on the bread line are they?

If you want the NHS staffed you need to pay the staff better from top to bottom. If you don’t have sympathy then you can’t complain when wait lists get longer and care gets worse as all the skills have buggered off to Australia/Dubai/Ireland

Blackmail won’t wash.

About 22% of medical school
places are taken up by private school. I think too many based on the fact only 7% of the population attend private school but my medical school having a majority of state school educated kids was not an anomaly Queen. I’d suggest it’s best to do your research before calling someone out on a public forum.

here’s the link: https://questionnaires.bma.org.uk/news/therightmix/index.html#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20the%207%20per%20cent,influential%20doctors%20in%20the%20profession.

I don't work in the NHS, but I know that if I had a bright teen I'd be encouraging them away from medicine. The sacrifices just don't seem worth it any more from the outside.

Goady.

You conveniently failed to mention the high numbers from selective grammar schools in affluent areas.

I’m in Scotland. Grammar schools don’t exist. All comps up here.

Well if this thread is anything to go by the strikes are going down like a cup of cold sick.

I wouldn’t be crowing about Scotlands education if I were you, I think the facts speak for themselves.

demanding that their pay keeps up with inflation whilst everyone else suffers and pays the price

Good job that's not what they're after then, isn't it?

When your pay has fallen in real terms by a third, just something that means it isn't failing again really isn't a lot to ask.

@GCalltheway the demand isn't for pay restoration in one go.

A phased deal or one which goes some way towards rectifying the situation would be acceptable.

But funnily the mainstream media aren't reporting that.

35% makes a much better headline.

It's about 20% of those who take A levels who are in the private sector.

So if it's 22% of places, then that's pretty much bang on representative

(Yes, 7% of secondary school age as a whole, but those who don't take A levels aren't really in with a shout, so is it fair to include them in the baseline proportion when you can compare a closer like-for-like?)

I was just responding to a statement regarding state school admissions to medical school. It seems you are in an antagonistic mood GC and I am not here for it. I hope you are happier in real
life than you appear to be on here. I’ve had the year from hell with a cancer diagnosis age 39 and I think I’m still managing to be more pleasant and empathetic than you. I was frightened I’d lost myself but it looks like I’m still here and still capable of withdrawing from a fight with a profoundly unpleasant poster. Small win but I’ll take it.

Also what is notable among our friends are the ONLY ones that are retiring early or going very part time are GPs and consultants! They are not retiring penniless, they are hoovering up incredibly lucrative private work!

Some have taken adult gap years to travel. They are staggeringly privileged and at least they seem to acknowledge it - certainly my friends do and say the youngsters today want instant gratification and immediate returns.

Yes of course.

My friend is a third year medical student. She is on the wards every week, working long shifts and studying for exams on top of that. Some of the placements are over an hours drive away. Unlike for nursing/physio/paramedic degrees, the NHS doesn’t provide training grants (£5000 per year) for medical students - they get their student loan and that is it. In sixth form she worked bloody hard - countless extra curricular activities, volunteering, work experience, studied four A level subjects and got straight A*s, sat the UCAT, had interviews etc. It was an extremely long and difficult process to even get into medical school.

When she graduates she will be allocated to a random hospital somewhere in the country, and every 4 to 12 months she will have to rotate until she is fully trained in her chosen specialty (could be anywhere from 5 to 8+ years of random rotations). Her contract will be 48 hours per week - much more than the standard 37.5 hour contract that most people have. She will be working horrendous shift patterns, going from days to nights to twilights etc. Her starting basic salary will be £29,000 and she will have to fund her own postgraduate exams to progress. It will take years of this to reach consultant level, and even then being a consultant isn’t an easy ride by any means.

Doctors sacrifice so many years of their lives for their career. I don’t think wanting fair pay and decent working conditions is at all unreasonable.

Also, I would like to make a note that my friend is from an extremely deprived background. She has never been “privileged” in any way. Hard work alone got her into medical school and she deserves to be paid fairly for the work she does and will do in the future.

People climbing the ranks now won't have the same terms and pay as some recently retired did. It's about not pulling the ladder up behind you.

It amounts to the same thing - phased or not, it still needs to be paid if it’s ever agreed, which is unlikely, it’s ridiculously harsh and irresponsible to demand such a huge ransom.

Stop calling your demands for more cash - ‘restoration’. It doesn’t certainly make it more palatable, and makes you sound even more out of touch.

it sounds like a horrendous time for you. I hope you are making a good recovery and I wish you well. I hope that these posts don’t depress you, social media isn’t a nice place in general.

**Certainly doesn’t

50% of it will be payed straight back in tax from our own salaries.

Poor you being in the top tax bracket.

It should be fair to include those who don't take A-levels.

Access to appropriate education and higher education disproportionately negatively effects young people from lower socio-economic groups.

It doesn't mean they're too thick for A-levels, it means they were disadvantaged educationally from the get-go and the education system in the UK is just another area of inequality.

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/uk-education-system-preserves-inequality-new-report#:~:text=There%20is%20a%20strong%20relationship,households%20have%20graduated%20from%20university.

This will be paid for by the tax of those of us working 50 hour weeks on minimum wage I presume

That's generally the premise of free at point of use healthcare yes. I do think it is time for a change, everyone should just pay as and when they need it, works really well in dentistry.

I would also say if the pay rise demand had been reasonable - 5/6% of course it would have attracted more support. 30/35 % is laughable quite frankly.

You have created an own goal because most people will support the government’s refusal because it appears so deeply unreasonable and unethical to rinse the public to this degree. What stupid fool came up with such a ridiculous plan? Or did you hope to fail for political reasons leaving the hospitals struggling?

I genuinely can not imagine how you would hope to get actual support for this.

Perhaps I will strike and demand a private jet or something.

Thanks @FullTimeFurore who clearly has some experience of healthcare and the 'dark humour' and sarcasm that working there engenders.

My negotiating with a trauma patient was supposed to be both an illustration of where we could end up with a private health service where ability to pay and very direct market forces would apply - it wouldn't be as clear as asking 'how much are you willing to pay for me to save your leg..?' but it won't be far off - there are plenty of documented instances of patients in insured health systems being told that their cover will meet the cost of an amputation, but its an extra £££££ or $$$$$ to try and save the limb, people with multiple fingers chopped off, and being told we'll pay to reattach the thumb and ring, but not the others - and and illustration of the value the NHS provides.

I'll refer to my initial posts - 2 of the operations I did were in my admin and development time, they took around 6 hours each - that's time I have to make up in my own time, at home, instead of spending it with my family, taking the kids swimming etc.

@GCalltheway the perfect illustration of my professionalism is that I choose to treat every patient equally, regardless of whether they appreciate the effort or not, and nobody is going to be left needing emergency treatment on the strike days - it'll be exactly the same cover as Christmas, or a bank holiday, or royal wedding / coronation / funeral - I didn't see outrage at the cancelled hip replacements on those days....