The next person who tells me we all need to move on...

[Youknowaboutthepaint]

Is likely to get both barrels.

So many people still seem convinced that "the other lot" would be even worse, even though they can't begin to tell me why.

That Christmas, while our esteemed leaders were partying was DH's last. He spent it at home, in pain, without access to the medical care he needed and without seeing anyone except those he lived with.

A few days later he went into to hospital where he stayed for 3 months, without a single visitor. During that time he was told, alone, by telephone because his consultant was shielding, that his cancer was terminal, stil he wasn't allowed any visitors. He never met his oncologist and I had to fight every day to find anyone who would talk to me about his prognosis/ treatment/pain control/return home.

He came home eventually once they'd managed to get his pain under some sort of control, to die, a shadow of the man his DC had last seen, still officially not allowed any visitors. (Although by that point anyone who wanted to visited, I classified as a carer).

Then we had to restrict numbers at his funeral.

All the while those making the decisions that had affected us so badly were having the time of their life. Most are still in power/working in governement, making the laws that affect us all, dishing out or receiving honours, spending our money. And they've lied about it continuously since.

I'm still trying to support severely traumatised children whose lives were badly affected by lockdowns, even if they hadn't had to deal with all the stuff with their dad.

I'm generally a fairly easy going, resilient sort, but I dare anyone to tell me it's time we got over it.

YANBU I’m so terribly sorry for what you went through, and all the other posters who suffered similar. Of course you shouldn’t be expected to move on

The debate here is not about whether lockdowns or vaccines were the right thing or not.

It's about our so-called leaders partying in such an arrogant way & the utter disdain they had for the public.

It's about lack of integrity, accountability, lies & manipulation. Of total hypocrisy, & double standards.

Let's keep it about that.

@ProseccoOnTap If someone intimates that im a Covid non believer im going to stand up for myself not meekly accept being accused of something im not Im not at school anymore

And the fact that Strictly and other things were allowed to go ahead IS a good example of double standards i would have thought.

@JenniferBooth - I honestly believe that, if we hadn’t had the lockdowns, we would have had significantly more Covid infections, and a proportion of those would have been very serious cases, requiring ICU beds. I don’t know what percentage of people with Covid infections became seriously ill, but the hospitals struggled to cope with the number of serious cases they did see - and more infections would logically have meant more serious cases, and more pressure on the hospitals.

I was lucky - a) because although I ended up in hospital with Covid, and low oxygen saturations, I didn’t need intensive care, and b) because when I was hospitalised, the hospital wasn’t overwhelmed with cases - but the staff who nursed me told me a bit about how bad it was before I was admitted - massive queues of paramedics waiting to get patients admitted to the hospital’s Covid assessment unit - so many that there were almost no ambulances and crews on the road, and their manager came to the unit to beg the staff to admit people faster, to free up the ambulances and crews, but they couldn’t go any faster.

I honestly don’t think the NHS and its staff could have coped with more patients with covid. If all the lockdowns did was to keep the NHS from collapsing under even more Covid cases, I can’t see that was a bad thing.

I do see all the issues that lockdowns caused - they are heartbreaking, and we need to ensure they don’t happen again - but the NHS in collapse, and people dying at home because there are no NHS beds/ventilators/staff to treat them would have been an unbelievable nightmare.

The NHS is not at fault here - I blame the successive governments who have run down the NHS, and removed all resilience from the system, by closing beds and cutting staff numbers. The NHS was stretched to its limit before Covid - it only coped because the staff sacrificed themselves and went massively above and beyond. Maybe, if there had been more give in the system - more beds, more staff, more equipment - the NHS wouldn’t have needed such stringent lockdowns to protect it.

I didnt object to the first lockdown (although i thought it should have been shorter) But the subsequent ones yes i objected. After telling us how unprecedented this all was the MPs all fucked off on their summer 2020 recess. They should have been working through it

And what are they doing to avoid lockdowns happening again

@JenniferBooth

I think you could maybe do with some yoga to help you relax a bit.

I didn’t say you were an anti-vaxxer. I said that your writing style - of being very ott and aggressive was reminiscent of covid non believers.

Sometimes to get a point across you don’t need to rant/rave/machine gun fire posts out. We hear you.

With regard to vaccines, the vaccines were given while active research was still going on. Ergo they had to respond and change tac whenever new research came out. You weren’t refused a vaccine…. You refused to take the bus or pay a taxi to where the appropriate vaccine supply was available for you. This meant that you had to then wait for local supply.

I really don’t want to wave a red flag at a bull, I hear how angry you are about lockdowns and how unjust it is that politicians flouted the rules.

We all feel aggrieved in different ways.

My own personal opinion from reading the data that was freely available and making my own mind up was that there was little choice but to lockdown the two times they did.

But this thread isn’t about that.

It’s about people acknowledging they are not ready to move on from being angry about gov parties etc going on whenever real hardships were visited upon them like not being able to be with dying family members.

^ This

I really must get round to reading this.

You refused to take the bus or pay a taxi to where the appropriate vaccine supply was available for you

a. i couldnt afford it at the time. As many couldnt And a lot of public transport went contactless and card only which people on here were only too happy to cheer on. People who support this kind of thing do not give a shit whether people can access vaccines or not.
b. The media was full of how lucky we were to have the NHS as its free How lucky we were to have FREE vaccines. I was simply holding the media and the Government to that promise. Its not free if you cant afford to access it, You cant say Covid is a serious disease, then put barriers in the way (financial or otherwise) to access the vaccine. Bit gaslighty

@JenniferBooth

I believe your bank can provide you with a debit card foc for contactless purchases.

@ProseccoOnTap

"The debate here is not about whether lockdowns or vaccines were the right thing or not.

It's about our so-called leaders partying in such an arrogant way & the utter disdain they had for the public.

It's about lack of integrity, accountability, lies & manipulation. Of total hypocrisy, & double standards.

Let's keep it about that."

++++

But the point here is whether

a) the so called leaders partying in such an arrogant way and with disdain for the rules they introduced here did so because they had a death wish and didn't care if they died from Covid or

B) they realised / knew that the risks to them of dying from Covid were low or the restrictions or lockdowns had a low influence on whether they got Covid or not. Or in short they knew more than the public did.

So who is at fault here? The politicians who didn't follow the rules they introduced or the public for following the rules or the Government / media for scaring everyone shitless that they were going to die.

I can't help but wonder why three years later when nothing much has changed, people are now carrying as if nothing happened. Covid is still out there and the protection from Covid jab has waned for everyone who hasn't had a booster in the last 6 months or were we over reacting at the time.

@Robinni i have one now but still had my old one at the time. You do realise that Nov 2021 was a while ago now. HAVING ONE THEN STILL WOULDNT HAVE CHANGED THE FACT THAT I COULDNT AFFORD IT THEN What about the rest of my post Still suffering from that privilege blindness that someone mentioned. You dont scream in the media about free vaccines then put financial barriers in the way of getting them. At the same time the media were calling people vaccine refusers when many of us couldnt actually access them. It made me suspicious that this was to cover up the supply issues.

You remind me of a poster who said to me "you think people should get them for free" on a thread about masks.

@1dayatatime for a virus to be successful long term in evolutionary terms it should cause limited pathology in its host because this enables it to get to its next host…

So you find that through time milder strains are selected for generally, in coronaviruses anyway.

More info here on viral evolution
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-viruses-evolve-180975343/

The other factors in why it isn’t as scary now

• in the beginning it was a novel infection, humans hadn’t had it before so there was no resistance (though some who had contracted SARS/MERS previously exhibited some antibody response).
• now pretty much everyone has had exposure via infection and/or vaccination so that gives herd immunity
• other therapeutics are available
• resources in place to develop more therapeutics/provide ppe etc
• spotlight shone on pandemic risk so more resources will be diverted to cope with any further issues with covid/other pathogens.

As for the politicians, I would suspect that if they were working closely with one another on a day to day basis that they thought partying together at work premises would be acceptable.

Obviously not.

It doesn't matter whether it was scenario 1 or 2 @ - it was their behaviour full stop that was the problem.

I don't care about the "reasoning" behind their decisions.

@JenniferBooth emergency hardship grants/loans are available.

I had to access them 20yrs ago. If you can’t afford a bus fare you do what you have to do.

Free vaccines. Not free transport.

@1dayatatime

My understanding is that we have developed hybrid immunity. From the vaccine and from catching Covid itself. Hospitals are not at breaking point. When Covid initially arrived here we had no method of control and hospitals couldn’t cope.

@Robinni buses here are also not reliable. London this fucking aint. I got my vaccine in the end Had i come across your attitude in Nov 2021 im not sure i would have bothered.

As i predicted in April 2020 Whatever the we (the public) do it will never be enough

I got my vaccine cos i kept trying. So hardly refusing

Robinni .........its a serious pandemic Unprecedented
Also Robinni. Ignores and blames poorer ppl for struggling to access vaccines.

https://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/1673424343244632073?s=20

Some heartbreaking posts here , sorry for your losses 🌾. I can't move on because even though I had all the vaccines, I caught covid last summer, got myocarditis which I still haven't recovered from and my cardiologist says he has loads of patients like me