Does anybody live in an eruv?

[namechange655]

How religiously observant/sociable do you have to be to fit in? What is the ratio of J:NJ in yours? Or alternatively, have you moved out of one and if so, why?
Thanks

I imagine most people who live in an eruv have absolutely no idea whether they live in an eruv or not, including many secular Jews. The London eruvim are massive. If you live in North West London, you probably do.

How will your neighbours know that your DH has Hasidic ancestry? Did he leave that local community or has he got family there?

I can only imagine it might be an issue if you live in an area like Stamford Hill with a very large Charedi community and your neighbours know your DH's heritage. If you live inside an eruv somewhere like Hendon, Hamsptead Garden Suburb, St John's Wood, Elstree, most of your neighbours will not be Jewish, let alone observant Jews or Hasidim.

I've no idea about Manchester but it might be helpful if you specify which eruv so someone can give more specific advice.

I suppose you could visit the house and check out how many of your neighbours have a mezuzah 😂I would say that in London in all likelihood you will have no Jewish neighbours to see you leave the eruv.

Barnet has the highest proportion of Jews in the UK, but even then it is only 15% of the borough. 34% of Jews in the UK are secular and another 30% identify as Liberal, Reform or "traditional but not religious", so even if your neighbours are Jewish, there is a good chance they will be crossing the eruv with you, talking on their mobile while eating a bacon cheeseburger.

because my DH has ditched the shtreimel tradition.

But not every observant male Jew wears a shtreimel anyway. I grew up somewhere with a huge Jewish population but because they didn't dress in the traditional way, and many didn't look like what some believe Jews to look like, people were often surprised when I mentioned it being a Jewish area.

Jews come in all shapes and sizes. Some dress in the same way as their ancestors, some with a nod to modesty, and some don't care at all. And most importantly, there is no such thing as looking Jewish, and thinking and/or stating this is merely playing into antisemitic tropes perpetuated by the Nazis.

Your comment about how many neighbours have a mezuzah made me think of a non-Jewish friend who as a child, moved to Temple Fortune. The children next door came over and commented about their lack of second sink 😂

Virtually everyone who lives in north west London lives in one. It makes no difference to anyone else's lives and it's very weird that you think it's policed in some way.

The previous owners of our new house had two extra fridges which they left behind. We were going to throw them away but when I explained to my husband why they had so many fridges in the kitchen, the idea of a kosher kitchen has persuaded him to adopt it as a halal kitchen - keep all the alcoholic drinks in a separate fridge in the garage!

@legrandcolbert

even if your neighbours are Jewish, there is a good chance they will be crossing the eruv with you, talking on their mobile while eating a bacon cheeseburger.

It was like that in Oakwood when I lived there. I met some lovely people. My Reform next door neighbours had me round to tea and we had pork Kabanos sausage and prosciutto.

I can only imagine it might be an issue if you live in an area like Stamford Hill with a very large Charedi community and your neighbours know your DH's heritage.

DH was brought up in Stamford Hill and his decision caused some minor issues for both himself and some family members. We also lost friends but we have moved on from it. That is why we need to choose really carefully.

Even though I said that he is non observant, I probably meant selectively observant. I am Reform but actually quite religious within that category. It sounds like he is more observant than many posters on this thread. We keep kosher (it has never been up for debate), I wanted to wear a sheitel (despite having no family tradition) but he was unhappy about it as we needed to put up a united front as a couple. I don't want my DC to be in a situation where they are not accepted because all the other children go to religious schools and nobody attends DS' Mitzvah because of their father's choices.

I am now convinced that NW London is big and diverse enough to accommodate our family but I will have to find the right patch. It requires further reflection.

I think you distracted everyone by asking about the eruv. The eruv itself has no bearing on your question. Spend time in the street to understand the community there.

I am now convinced that NW London is big and diverse enough to accommodate our family but I will have to find the right patch. It requires further reflection.

I absolutely concur with this, it's just a question of finding the right place for you. Good luck with your search.

Mine would be one of them. You learn something new every day!

Maybe. It was a bit more intense inside the Stamford Hill boundaries but it sounds like it is largely irrelevant to day-to-day living in other areas.

I don't see why posters are saying this is strange or inflammatory 🤔. Housing within an eruv area is largely going to attract the more observant, and this may have an impact on a family who are considered OTD to the local community. It really isn't comparable to those saying they are non Jews and no one cares.

OP your question makes more sense now - I was a bit confused by why living within or close to an eruv would be potentially problematic. I'm not Jewish so you will know more than I do on community dos and don'ts (as a PP said, I clicked on this purely as someone who lives close to an eruv).

I think in your situation it's fair to say that this is a more nuanced decision - good luck and I hope you find somewhere suitable.

That wasn't immediately apparent from the OP - it makes sense now she's clarified.

Yes exactly @WaterIris

And I would add that eruvs cover virtually the whole of NW London. I don't know anyone - Jewish or otherwise - who gives them much of a thought or is impacted by them at all. They are certainly not overwhelmingly populated by the more observant.

Because the OP was unclear on why OP was asking and could just have easily been trying to goad people into making anti-semitic comments @feralunderclass.

I wouldn't say that housing within an eruv is necessarily going to attract the more observant. Or, at least, it doesn't mean that there are a large number of very religous people. They were erected in areas that have always had an above average sized Jewish community but that community is very diverse. As PP and I have pointed out, most of NW London is within an eruv. 85% of residents are not Jewish, and about 65% of those who are Jewish aren't very religiously observant or totally secular. Apart from a few areas like Stamford Hill, Jews (and especially very observant Jews) are still a tiny minority in the community within the London eruvim.

I'm an observant Jew

I live inside a large Eruv with 4 children.

There are some observant Jews who don't 'hold by' the eruv and won't take advantage of the allowances.

And I don't know a single person who would judge observance levels differently if you lived inside or outside the eruv.

I can tell you that if you have teens and want them to have a social life while not using phones or cars one day a week, being in the eruv and walking distance to friends makes a massive difference.

I definitely wouldn't exclude a house that otherwise meets your needs because it's inside the eruv. As others said, the eruv won't change if your family drives on Shabbat.

If you have young children, plan to bring them up within the Jewish community and can vaguely imagine that one might lean towards trying out observance in the future (not as unusual as people think) then being in the eruv will be one less thing to worry about. Same with friends visiting etc.

Where I live there are some streets that are 50% observant Jews and some with none. The Eruv is very large and covers about 18 suburbs.

North West London is diverse.

If you want an inclusive community it might be worth looking at some community Facebook pages. I know questions about what might be a good starting place to look for a new home are asked on Jewish Britain.

I'm sorry you've had negative experiences as a family with your husband's choice to move away from the traditions of his family. I have cousins in Stamford Hill so I do understand.

@WaterIris it shouldn't be necessary for the OP of any thread to have to "clarify" their intentions. To me it is quite obvious from the OP that they were coming from the perspective of a Jewish background. This isn't the first thread where a Jewish poster has been accused of being an "anti-semite". You literally cannot mention jew/synagogue/kosher and now eruv on here without posters flooding in to accuse the OP of nefarious intentions.

I don't think it was obvious. Perhaps it is if your are Jewish, I don't know?

The OP has posted in chat, the thread title literally says does anyone live in an eruv, and the opening post doesn't say anything about concerns due to OPs own family situation or religious background.

I posted initially to say I found the OPs question quite odd. I didn't accuse her of antisemitism.

If OP wanted responses from people with direct experience of her family situation then it might have been helpful to have asked for Jewish posters' replies only.

@WaterIris I'm not specifically getting at you BTW, but it's really annoying when people respond to a question (because they don't see the context) with "what a strange question". Half of the threads on MN are strange. I'm not Jewish, but it was obvious to me that the OP was referring to fellow Jewish posters, she asked about levels of observance, non Jews wouldn't be "observing" anything. And it would have made no difference if she'd only asked for Jewish replies, there was a thread not so long ago specifically asking for Muslim replies only and the majority of posters weren't Muslim and were just berating the OP.

If the OP had responded to the first poster who answered her question with 'I'm not Jewish ...' and said that actually she was really interested in hearing from other Jewish women then I think you'd have a point. But she didn't.

And honestly the way the world is at the moment, I'd rather posters be on high alert for anti semitism than the other way round.

I'm kind of with you, but I think you're maybe crediting people with needing to pick up nuance that might be obvious to you, but isn't to them.

It's really difficult to balance sometimes. I really dislike it when posters go on about drip-feeding. But at the same time there are occasions where a bit more info might have brought different responses.

Hopefully OP gets a house sorted which suits their needs.

Hi. perhaps I should have clarified earlier on. I expected that non Jewish posters wouldn't know what an eruv was anyway and definitely wouldn't bother with the thread. That was based of my experience of Stamford Hill which has a small number of people from other backgrounds but in general, they do not seek knowledge of our laws and traditions.

Specifically, I do hope that my DC are more observant than my DH. Infact, DH may be going through some kind of mid life crisis and revert back one day!

I don't think we will choose an area similar to Stamford Hill where you are under pressure to conform in different ways. We are considering Finchley Road now. Mill Hill and Cricklewood seem too suburban, places like Stanmore do not feel urban enough.

Finchley Road is great 😊