Woman prosecuted for illegally aborting her baby at 34 weeks pregnant

[Endlessdark]

What are your thoughts of this? My heart breaks for the poor baby. There was so much time to do it earlier if she wanted to. ☹️ obviously don’t know her reasoning behind it so I’m interested to hear others thoughts! It’s said she claimed to only be 7 weeks pregnant and as it was during covid, she was sent abortion pills in the post.

https://apple.news/AEftuMVmFQ2quaiDb-lN78Q

what do you think, is it right that she was prosecuted or do you think there needs to be a reform of this law?

But then if she doesn't get punished for it, surely it just leads the way for more of these incidents to happen?

I really don’t think we need to worry about a spate of women carrying out illegal, dangerous at home abortions at ~32 weeks.

But she would have been very clearly showing and was about to give birth.

Really? Because there is a lot of child abuse in this country. And people get desperate and listen to abusive partners.

It’s almost like lockdown was used as some kind of excuse.

Having had a lockdown termination, I was interrogated to hell before getting the tablets, but the choice to go into the clinic was there if really needed. Medical needs were not ignored, people weren’t forced to continue pregnancies, help was there.

she just didn’t choose to seek it, and instead lied to everyone involved. How awful for the medical professionals involved in the decision making, to be duped like that.

The option of at home termination was much welcomed by myself and I was very very well looked after. It’s awful that a fellow woman could abuse this offering, when it can really benefit some in particular circumstances

But then if she doesn't get punished for it, surely it just leads the way for more of these incidents to happen?
This.
We can't set the precedent that if it's easier not to have a baby because you've changed your partner, just murder it in a horrifying way if you're lucky enough not to have gone into pre-term labour.

I think another poster who said something about this isn't an abortion debate hit the nail on the head for me. I believe women should have safe access to abortion as early as possible and as late as necessary. This case isn't an abortion case to me.

But then I also find it hard to imagine that any moral, rational person would do what this woman did because it's so awful. In that case does she need psychiatric evaluation?

This whole case baffles me. Why did she spend months researching abortion rather than actually getting one? She clearly didn't want it and knew perfectly well she had limited time. Why was she embarrassed to go to the doctor? A grown woman who's already had three children. What would she had done if she had to go full term? Such a tragic case in all.

She killed a baby at a late stage of pregnancy They were right to jail her.

It is completely different. I am entitled to my opinion. I am not saying she was right but punishing her children and sending her to prison is not the answer.

From what I read she was pregnant with another man's baby. She then Went back to her estranged husband but didn't want him to know she was pregnant so tried to get rid of it to save her marriage. If this is true then she deserves jail.

One is too many

Totally agree. This wasn't abortion but murder.

That's why abortion is not done so near to birth. The baby is viable.

Surely you are not suggesting that no mother who commits a crime should be imprisoned?

What she did was inhumane and caused suffering to her unborn child. It is essentially child cruelty.

She deserved to be punished.

I'm not sure that prison is the best punishment due to the effect of that on her other children. But I feel that way about prison for non-violent offences generally.

I'm not sure what would be a reasonable alternative though.

Why ?

What is prison for then ? Generally it's punishment. For a crime .

We should support this woman who committed such an extreme crime ? This wasn't a case of confused woman. . She knew full
Well how far along she was . She utilised lockdown to commit essentially a murder . A technicality calls it something else - but that baby was viable . Tough luck she got caught . She's a disgusting human and deserves everything she brought on herself and her family - her choice . Her body . She chose. So tough .

Why didn't she just power through the final 4-6 weeks and then give the baby to social services if she didn't want it!?

At 34 weeks there is no hiding a pregnancy. The ex H must have seen it. I had my son at 34 weeks and I was huge. The only issue my son had had the time was he needed a little help breathing for a couple of days whilst his lungs developed. He is now a 6 foot healthy 21 year old.

To all those saying that her children are also being punished, is being a mother a literal get out of jail for free card? Does that apply to any crime? What crimes do you think it applies to? Does it apply to fathers too? Does it apply if the father is the sole breadwinner with all that means financially? What about carers? Do we include them?
Yes, I feel for her kids, but she had ample time to get a legal abortion.

Exactly @loislovesstewie all the posters with the 'but she's a motherrr! Mother's can't go to jail.'
This woman, calculated her child's death, manipulated the system to get the pills to kill baby Lily, the months of research will have shown the agonising death this would have caused Lily and she still did it. And she then watched as others tried to save her, knowing full well they could do nothing. I have zero sympathy for her.

As @MichelleScarn said, this woman manipulated the system, and calculated ways to destroy the child ... a child that would almost definitely have survived outside of the womb. At that stage (7-8 months into the pregnancy,) it is 100% murder. (As many posters have said...)

At what point does it go from abortion to murder? I don't know. That's up for debate. But 7-8 months in is DEFINITELY murder and anyone who disagrees needs locking up with this woman. I'm not a fan of abortion, not totally anti-abortion, but if it was my choice, I'd not allow it past 18 weeks, let alone 24. (The current limit.) That's my opinion. I'm entitled to it.

I hear she already has kids, and I agree that the people crying 'but she's a mother, she shouldn't go to prison....' are being absolutely ridiculous . It's a stupid argument that suggests that women who are mothers are somehow superior, and better human beings those who are not, which is a repugnant suggestion.

If (as someone said further back,) she did indeed have an affair with another man, and it was another man's baby, and she tried to get rid of the baby, because her husband didn't want to know and was going to leave her, then I think they should actually throw away the key. Just leave her there to rot, because that is absolutely abhorrent.

It could even be that she just let the pregnancy go as far as possible, just so she could see how far along she could be and still destroy the baby (at seven or eight months into the pregnancy), because she's actually that kind of person. Women have done stranger/worse things, you know, Women do destroy their own children, kill their own children, murder their own children. Been known to kill their newborn child if it's not the right sex/gender.

Let's stop putting women into this silly bloody 'oh but she's an iccle fluffy wumman' box, and acting like it's soooo bad to put a MOTHER in jail. It's not. So her (living) children have their mum in prison. With what she has done, I'd say they're better off with her in there.

At what point does it go from abortion to murder? I don't know. That's up for debate.

It's not up for debate, it's murder after birth.

Before birth a person can be charged with child destruction (that can be used for late abortions, or for someone who attacks a woman causing the death of a foetus) and can lead to life in prison.

As an example:
www.cps.gov.uk/wessex/news/updated-sentence-violent-abuser-guilty-causing-death-unborn-baby

No. Still up for debate. Aborting a child at 7-8 months in is murder.

In my opinion.

I read that paramedics worked hard to resuscitate the baby. I wonder if they have been able to to confirm if the baby definitely died before she was born.

How do they determine the exact moment of death of the baby? I suppose an autopsy would have determined if she ever took a breath.

So incredibly aweful

Awful

The trauma for those poor paramedics too. Trying to resuscitate a baby whose mother had just caused her death. They will likely never forget that.