Mum sentenced to 28 months in prison for abortion pills

[mumoftwobarnyboys]

Used after the cut off point of 10 weeks.

Regardless of how far gone she was, surely this isn't right?

It is her body, despite me morally really thinking what she did was very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit?CMP=twtgu&utmmsource=Twitter&utmmedium=&s=08#Echobox=1686577294

She acted illegally by killing her baby. Prison is really not a disproportionate sentence here

So in fact you think the law should change not to secure women’s rights but to accord with your ethical beliefs.
nope.

For me, yes you are.

It was her “Not Guilty” plea that finally put her in chokey though.

She made some very poor decisions all round.

And if you disagree, you're a misogynist trying to take away women's right to choose abortion.

So in fact you think the law should change not to secure women’s rights but to accord with your ethical beliefs.
nope.

Eh? What ethical beliefs are you referring to?

Your belief that abortion should never be criminal and should be treated as a healthcare issue solely (although I’m not sure the latter point actually gets you to where you want to be - the criminal law impinges on many areas of healthcare, not just this one).
the law is not there to reflect your personal beliefs. It is there to reflect the compromise our society as a whole has reached. I personally thin the current law does that well and we undermine it at our peril.

Agreed.

She intentionally ended the life of her child many weeks after the legal abortion limit. And repeatedly lied to do so. Not just to medical professionals but to her family, her estranged partner and the father of the baby

Had she gone into labour spontaneously at 32-34 weeks and suffocated the infant, she would have been charged with more serious offences.

The intent was the same (to illegally end the life of the child), the result was the same. The court sympathised with her predicament and she was fortunate to be treated sympathetically.

It's relevant legally that she was not charged with infanticide but not morally. The intent and outcome were the same, she wanted to end the life of her child who could have lived had she not taken that action. And she ended that life.

Overturning abortion laws or discussion of abortion laws are not really relevant in what she did.

Im so torn about where i stand on late term abortions but i have a question for people who think abortion to term is ok.
If a pregnant women was killed and she was over 24 weeks. The person who killed her would also be charged with killing her unborn child ( rightly so)
If abortions were allowed after 24 weeks would that no longer happen? As surely the law be different for wanted/ unwanted. Genuine question.

At the start of this thread I thought the mother was awful and appalling but after reading through everyone's point of view and informative information I actually do believe it is every woman's right to have total control over her body. A late abortion sounds horrific but she must have been desperate to do so. I'm really baffled by the comments along the lines of 'are you a mother' 'I've had a premature baby and I'm disgusted' I don't see the point of such views. What difference does it make? I'm a mother, I had a baby at 28 weeks weighing 1lb 10oz, it doesn't change the fact that this woman, for whatever reason was desperate, I'm sure she was well aware of its size and what being a mother is like. Some of these comments are like something out of a fairy tale. 'why didn't she just put it up for adoption'. Life is so easy for some. Some problems just don't have easy answers. It's awful. I just can't imagine the desperation.

Abortion is a choice, being murdered whilst pregnant isn't.

i think it needs to be understood that lots of people are in desperate or confused states when they commit offences. This might be mitigation but it is not an excuse. I am not sure why this case should be different.

I am sorry but what she did amounts to murder in my view

yes she should be jailed

Abortion is a choice, being murdered whilst pregnant isn't.

Its not about murder.

She's specifically asking why it's ok (according to some posters) to unlawfully kill a 32-34 week fetus if you are the mother.

But not ok for a third party to kill a fetus, such as if the mother is attacked or killed. We'd all say that killing somebody else's fetus is abhorrent and deserves a charge in relation to that act (in addition to assault or murder).

Because it was her body. Why should someone be told what to do with their body. It's not the same as other crimes. She couldn't just walk away from it.

Where America leads do we, gradually, follow?

Couldn't agree more.

I’m a bit surprised she’s been “named and shamed” in the media, I think she should have been given anonymity.

Yes. Lots of people commit offences and could give mitigating circumstances.

Very, very few people charged with a crime say 'yeah I knew I was breaking the law and decided to do so hoping I wouldn't get caught or if I was, hope I wouldn't be punished because x, y and z reasons'.

She knew she was pregnant weeks before lockdown. Her estimate was that one of the people she was having sex with impregnated her at some point between Oct and December.

Her texts said in Feb she knew she was pregnant and not just a couple of weeks.

So even before lockdown in March she knew and could have taken steps to abort.

She didn't. And for months she was Googling how to get an abortion, how to get an abortion after the legal limit and if she would go to prison if she did.

She chose to lie to everyone including medical professionals to gain drugs to abort the foetus when she knew she was several months pregnant.

Several months where she knew she was pregnant, knew what the laws were and at one point Googled to see if she could go to prison for aborting a foetus after the legal limit.

She possibly thought she would possibly be able to hide the birth, or not go to prison so she did what she did.

She was wrong and couldn't hide it and was prosecuted and now has to serve a prison sentence.

Which is just.

She demonstrated months of planning but fucked up at the end and got caught. She deserves prison.

Because it was her body. Why should someone be told what to do with their body. It's not the same as other crimes. She couldn't just walk away from it.

The baby could have been birthed alive and relinquished, there was seriously no need for this. She gave birth either way, only now thy e baby died, possibly in pain.

I find it hard to understand why she thought it was a better decision to abort at 32-34 weeks, rather than putting up with the pregnancy for another month and delivering a baby who could have been given a home with a loving family. By that late stage I believe the baby had rights too. I support abortion under the existing law but not at 34 weeks. It is absolutely heartbreaking that a mother is now being taken away from her children now. I don’t know what the right answer is in these difficult and complicated circumstances.

Because a blanket theory of anyone being able to do anything they chose to with their body leads to abject nonsense which is unlawful and can damage all of society

Just look at the recent cases of the extreme mutilation cases of the fetishists removing body parts.

And the cases of women killed where the defence suggests they were in BSDM relationships and it was a oops went too far scenario?

It's their body right? So why not make that legal?

When it's women carrying viable foetus' there is another life to consider.

For those saying the sole consideration is the woman’s body, I doubt they would condone smoking, drinking or taking drugs during pregnancy. Of course the body of the foetus matters too and that is why the law has a cut off point for ending its life (subject to exceptions where the mother’s life is in danger). To me it’s not as black and white as being solely about a woman’s body. I fully understand many women disagree (I support their right to do so) and it is incredibly important to discuss and debate the issue.

For those saying the sole consideration is the woman’s body, I doubt they would condone smoking, drinking or taking drugs during pregnancy. Yet no matter the extent of damage that a woman caused to her baby through these means, she still wouldn't be prosecuted for it, as far as I am aware.

Nope. Because those women were not intentionally seeking to end the life of the foetus.

The woman in this case was. There's the difference.