Elderly neighbour acting odd, knocking on doors in nightclothes

[Eggyhair]

A neighbour from a few houses away, has always been nosey and a bit of a gossip.

When DD was at primary, we walked past their house twice a day and they (her and her husband), would always stop to talk to us. She also spoke to my parents a lot, before dad died.

A few weeks ago, DD & I were waiting for a friend to pick us up and she came out. She said she was being nosey and asked who we were and how long we'd been here. I told her I'd been here for 14 years and DD all her life and said she should probably didn't recognise DD as she'd grown (she's 12 and doesn't look that different, but was being charitable, not sure why she didn't remember me).

I had a supermarket delivery and the driver said she was asking him for forms to get deliveries. He told her she'd need to do it online, but she said she doesn't have the internet and wanted to do it by forms. She then kept walking up and down, till he went. Same with my next delivery.

This afternoon (4pm), she knocked on my door, wearing a nightie, dressing gown and slippers. She asked for a male name I'd never heard of and know no one who lives on our road has. She then asked who I was and where I came from. I said I came from my house (as I was a bit confused by what she meant). She said not to mind her, that she was drunk! She then asked about a funeral, confirmed I wasn't the male she was seeking and went. I asked if she was OK, she said she was, but I watched her home.

I'm guessing social services would be the best bet? It would be very difficult to talk to her husband (who I rarely see, as he had a femur operation recently).

Not sure what else to do. I'm assuming dementia, unless she is alcoholic, which doesn't seem likely (and she didn't appear drunk at all, just confused).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/23/part/1/crossheading/safeguarding-adults-at-risk-of-abuse-or-neglect/enacted

This is the relevant legislation. Anything you are looking at before that which talks about harm prevention (I'm guessing the 2006 stuff) has long been superseded by the Care Act 2014

@hatgirl well if you are a social worker (which from your uniformed posts I very much doubt) then your exactly the reason the system is up shit creek!

The only people who could give an informed opinion on if she truly is at risk is her GP or by having an assessment carried out by social services.

No she may not meet the threshold for intervention by social services but that absolutely does not mean that she wouldn't benefit from some of the services that are available to her.
It also doesn't mean that her partner wouldn't benefit from having contact details for social services for when they do need help and a discussion around what help might be available to them and how to find help.

90% of my social service referred client don't meet the threshold for social services support or funding for care. But all of them needed assistance in finding the appropriate services because they didn't know who to ask and didn't have the internet to help them find assistance.

Yea sad.

She's doting as we would say...

Perhaps you have misunderstood.

I'm not saying she doesn't meet the criteria for social services support, (she may well do). I'm saying it's not a section 42 safeguarding issue. Because it isn't.

If you read my posts I also say that the correct thing to do is speak to her and her husband and ask if they have/want support and get the information for him/her or make the referral for him/her if they consent but don't feel able to do it themselves.

This is what social services will also advise at this stage if OP rings them.

The OP has literally had a couple of conversations with a confused lady. There is nothing in her posts that suggests she has any concerns for her beyond her being confused.

I've been on mumsnet under this username a very very long time if you have any doubts about my posting history.

@hatgirl if her husband is her carer, surely it is neglecting her needs if he is not capable of stopping her from wandering in the street in a nightie not knowing who anyone is and knocking on random doors?

Exactly.

As pp said, if you can't see the issues with that, the problem is the way social services operates, and you. This is likely to be a vulnerable adult. It sounds like you have no idea what the actual point of safeguarding is.

On the discovery of a missing resident, as a minimum, the following actions should be completed by care home staff:
• ensure that all staff are informed of the missing resident and an ‘Open Door’ search is conducted of the home (including other residents rooms), grounds, cupboards and out buildings. This should also include staff vehicles ensuring they are secure in case the resident has entered a vehicle and hidden inside.
• a written record of this search should be made on a floor plan of the premises, recording who has searched where, marking what areas are being searched and marking when they are complete. This should be handed to the police when they arrive, who should recheck the premises.
• details of the missing person should be reported to the police control room (101 or 999 in an emergency) by telephone as this search takes place. The level of concern and all known risks (medical issues, disabilities etc) should be stressed to the call taker where applicable.
• staff should commence telephoning the list of contacts for local pubs and restaurants in the area giving a detailed description of the missing person, particularly if the resident has a history of alcohol use or smokes and is likely to go to a premise to purchase these items. Details of who has been called should be passed onto the police on their arrival.
• the CCTV system should be checked to try to pin point the time that the missing person left the premises, by which exit and the direction of travel.
This is not an exhaustive list of tactics. A balance must be struck between maintaining quality of life and ensuring there is an adequate safeguarding plan in place. Much will depend on the individual, their habits, interests, mobility and many other factors. Safeguarding plans should be tailoured to that individual and where possible include the views of the person.

Instructions for care homes. Wow, seems like they're bothered about people with dementia moving about freely!

safeguardinghub.co.uk/dementia-reducing-the-risk-of-harm-from-wandering/#:~:text=distraction%20–%20attempt%20to%20reduce%20or,and%20physically%20engaged%20with%20activities.

Sadly I have met this attitude from social workers so many times. They just don't get it!

They have narrowed down the support to the absolute bare minimum. Splitting hairs about what is and isn't safeguarding.

We have a very reactive system which only kicks into any form of use (and even then it's often more trouble than it's worth) when there is a crisis.
What social workers need to do is look at the bigger picture and offer interventions earlier and prevent the crisis from happening in the first place.

And yes I get there's no bloody money. There never is! But I'm damned sure it would cost less to intervene earlier and offer support than deal with the inevitable crisis!

Safeguarding is a statutory term.

You can throw the word around as much as you like to mean ' there's a worry about this person' but it doesn't change what it means in actual law. Which I posted above.

The lady hasn't come to any harm. She's wandering, a bit confused in her own neighbourhood.

The OP has no idea if the lady is well known to social services already and under the local memory clinic, accessing the community using an assistance tracker.

She's not asked.

I'm just pointing out that in the circumstances as described by the OP the local authority are likely to ask the OP to try and obtain consent for the referral.

It's that pesky Human Rights Act with its article 8 rights and whatnot.

I fully agree, and I have worked alongside social workers.

I don't agree with @hatgirl to be clear.

Sadly I have met this attitude from social workers so many times. They just don't get it!

I can fully imagine.

That's guidance relating to people who have met the criteria to be in a care homes and complelty irrelevant to what is being discussed. The same standards do not apply to people in their own homes.

Social services will more than happily help this couple if they want it. The OP just has to ask them if they want her to assist them to make a referral or check if they are already getting help. Not sure why people are getting upset about me pointing that out.

I'm not spliting hairs about what is and isn't safeguarding. Safeguarding is a statutory term for abuse and neglect. If you Google your local safeguarding adults board what is and isn't abuse or neglect will be listed.

The lady hasn't come to any harm. She's wandering, a bit confused in her own neighbourhood.

A person with severe dementia is like a young child in how they interact with the world. Is that how you think missing children should also be dealt with? You sound completely clueless.

@hatgirl isn’t it better to get the experts in to help this couple. It’s not like OP is close friends of the couple, so why should she be the person going to chat to them to see if they are alright. To be fair if the elderly lady is walking the street in her nightie it is quite obvious all is not right with them

I'm not spliting hairs about what is and isn't safeguarding. Safeguarding is a statutory term for abuse and neglect. If you Google your local safeguarding adults board what is and isn't abuse or neglect will be listed.

I'm not interested in the lame tick boxing of social services. Believe it or not "safeguarding" was actually intended to stop people coming to harm!

I would say I think @hatgirl is a fantasist, but unfortunately I've known too many social workers.

No safeguarding is a word. A word with a meaning which is 'to protect from harm or damage with an appropriate measure'.

Social services (and the government no doubt) have their own interpretation of the word. Which they have enshrined in law. Minimising their legal responsibilities to everyone and anyone. As you are clearly demonstrating.

I'm not surprised by the SW posts, splitting hairs to do the minimum necessary or advisable.

My MIL was that elderly lady: wandering around her village in her nightdress and bothering neighbours; so confused and vulnerable. She lived with my drug addict BIL, who cooked food for them, but there was violence between them (from her towards him). SS faffed about. Then BIL died. They still did nothing. Whole situation was worse than your worse nightmare, but SS did nothing until much later. Police and community psychs were brilliant, though.
SS are more about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

We have a very reactive system which only kicks into any form of use (and even then it's often more trouble than it's worth) when there is a crisis.
What social workers need to do is look at the bigger picture and offer interventions earlier and prevent the crisis from happening in the first place.

I think some of those people have completely lost sight of that, and are happy to fall back on the bare minimum the law specifies as justification. When I worked there, in children's social services, they went hard after young vulnerable girls (often care leavers) who had just had a baby, and left the difficult cases behind. It had bad consequences on both sides.

This sounds very much like Dementia poor lady.

Definitely contact adult social services if you don't know of her family!

Social services (and the government no doubt) have their own interpretation of the word. Which they have enshrined in law. Minimising their legal responsibilities to everyone and anyone. As you are clearly demonstrating.

Perfectly put.

Sadly, I agree.

Not once have I said this couple shouldn't be helped if they need it.

I've advised its not a statutory safeguarding issue - because it isn't, however cross that makes everyone.

I've suggested to the OP that she attempts to get a bit more information/seek consent before making the referral - which is perfectly normal advice. It's the first thing she will be asked when she makes the phone call to them.

Then she can choose whether or not to go and pass on the information she gets from that phonecall to the husband about how he can get a referral if he wants one.

Even agencies like the police and ambulance services have to ask consent before referring to social services unless there is a good reason not to. It's not the local authority being difficult its basic consent.