American Summer camps

[Remotecontrolatmyside]

Why have American style summer camps ever taken off in the UK? Is it because it would be unaffordable for the vast majority of the UK population? They always look like so much fun in films (I know that might not be the case in reality) and would solve a lot of child care issues maybe?

[mathanxiety]

@Teabab

The holidays are longer as has been said, and generally annual leave allowances are absolutely awful so there isn't the option for many to look after their children in the holidays.

I volunteered whilst at uni for 3 summers though with Camp America and absolutely loved it! I don't think a lot of traditions and the like would translate well here though, and I'm not sure you'd be able to attract cheap staff (and make it somewhat affordable for parents) in the same way- not saying its good they do that but it's true. We weren't paid much at all but had accommodation and meals paid for and then everyone used the money they did get to go travelling after for a week. The locations are also often stunning and children travel from a wide radius to attend, not really the same attitude to stuff like that here often.

The holidays are indeed longer, but Americans who can afford the summer camp experience for their children are rarely stuck for childcare.

Many young children and babies attend daycare year-round.

Children who are school age are often looked after during the summer by teens hired by their parents. American teens under age 16 can work casually in childcare without any red tape. If they want to work in a store, restaurant, etc., and are under age 16 they need what amounts to a permission slip from their school, and there are a few hoops to jump through in order to get that slip. The long summer vacation makes it possible for teens to make a good deal of money - as lifeguards, local park district camp counselors, in shops and restaurants, and looking sfter children.

[mathanxiety]

@HamBone

The overly long summer holidays in the US are definitely an issue. I was horrified when we first moved here! I really hope the schedule changes at some point, half-terms and a shorter summer break would be far better.

I doubt it will change. Half terms would be a nightmare. At least in summer there are teens available to do paid childcare. Working in the summer is an attractive proposition for teens because there are about three months to fill and the prospect of making quite a lot of money. If they only had a week here and a week there and a much shorter summer holiday, working wouldn't be half as attractive a proposition.

[aloris]

Some places in the USA are trying to move to shorter summer hols and more of a year-round school system. I don't know if year round school will work here - the long summer hols seem shocking when you're not used to it, but you get used to it and it does have its advantages. Teens get jobs and earn money for college, which they would not be able to do with a shorter summer holiday. Teens and college students who are off for the summer are also a big source of babysitters and again that wouldn't be possible with year-round school (unless Uni also went year round, which is unlikely because internships).

And another big one is that summer travel funds beach communities, which is a big thing in Governor races for coastal states. You can't run a beach community on 6 weeks of summer vacation. Every day of summer is important to renting out beachside properties and making them profitable as a business. Likewise, parents and families would be furious if they were not able to spend at least one of their meager two weeks of vacation at the beach, because all of the USA was trying to rent beachside homes in the same 6 week period of the summer.

It does mean the kids have a little "knowledge drain" when they get back in September but it also means kids who are not "book smart" get 3 months of the year to build skills and have fun in activities they ARE actually good at, before they get back to the grind of academic subjects for 9 solid months.

Another factor is that in some parts of the USA it really does get very hot in the summer. Well into the 100s, dangerous heat. If they were to make school year round, they would have to put in better air conditioning which would be $$$$$$$$ to install and run.

[00100001]

@Honeychickpea

Are you kidding me? 30 years in the us, I've only known one couple with a sahp. However everyone i know gets 30 + days of pto.

But that's unusual to get 30+ days holiday. Average is 11.
Usually in ex pats etc get that kind of leave as part of their negotiation.

[00100001]

@00100001

But that's unusual to get 30+ days holiday. Average is 11.
Usually in ex pats etc get that kind of leave as part of their negotiation.

I know a British couple who went to California,and he was head hunted and only came on the proviso that he got UK style annual leave, paternity leave etc. As well as things like two flights home a year etc. He got it.

[ThickSkinnedSoWhat]

It's a good thing really. A member of my family went to work at one, lied about all these skills they could supposedly do, and was in charge of these children when I personally wouldn't trust them to look after a budgie. Obviously they aren't all like that, but it certainly put me off the idea of them that family member could pretend they'd knowledge of about 30 different activities and had to provide absolutely no evidence that they were very experienced in them.

[Teabab]

@ThickSkinnedSoWhat

It's a good thing really. A member of my family went to work at one, lied about all these skills they could supposedly do, and was in charge of these children when I personally wouldn't trust them to look after a budgie. Obviously they aren't all like that, but it certainly put me off the idea of them that family member could pretend they'd knowledge of about 30 different activities and had to provide absolutely no evidence that they were very experienced in them.

That's unfortunate. We had to prove qualifications if we were leading groups otherwise were generalists who helped support activities. Sounds like a very irresponsible organisation.

[HatchetJob]

@kingtamponthefurred

Setting aside the ethics of 'fat camp', why would parents pay a lot of money to send their children to one and then undermine the programme by providing contraband high calorie foods?

Well exactly. Apparently the same kids came back because they didn’t really change their attitude to food, just were denied them what they liked for a few months. And the parents would just try to send it to them (I’m not in touch with her anymore but the girl who worked there said it was hilarious how much food was sent daily).

[Summertimesmile]

Day camps are pretty standard in the U.K. and run every half term and school holidays. I can think of at least a dozen companies who run them and that’s withojtcrje ones run by churches / sports clubs etc. They usually take over a school and use all their facilities. The ones my kids have all done and now work in offer specialist camps such as football / cricket / drama or general ones where they do sport / arts and crafts etc. they’re usually open from age 3-12 cost about £35/40 a day and run from first week of July when the private schools finish and end august bank holiday weekend. They usually have an early and late drop off too for working parents. It’s just the overnight camps which aren’t as popular VJ wee

[SaturdayGiraffe]

Are all the staff DBS checked (the US equivalent)? A quick google reveals many stories of CSA. The Boy Scouts of America ones seem particularly rife.

[Qilin]

@ssd

I didn't realise American kids get 3 months school holidays, what a nightmare for the parents!

They tend to have less in the rest of the year, so don't have half terms for example.

[Qilin]

@SaturdayGiraffe

Are all the staff DBS checked (the US equivalent)? A quick google reveals many stories of CSA. The Boy Scouts of America ones seem particularly rife.

Dd had a look at them for this summer before securing her Disney summer job instead. Certainly when you apply from the UK you have to be enhanced DBS checked.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

They're very popular in Poland too, albeit for 2-3 weeks not 7. It seems to be more common in countries with longer summer holidays.

[thatcornishfeeling]

We could do with some holiday clubs for a start. We only have a shit "PE" version run by the council which is 2 days per holiday (or something equally as pointless). All the rest were mostly cancelled during Covid and never started up again.

My DHs family are American and their memories of summer camp are not good.

But day camp sounds brilliant and I wish we had those here! We have lots of forest schools but those are for 4's and under and are primarily an opportunity for bearded posh boys to post selfies of themselves on Instagram pretending to be teachers. Definitely more about social media perception than it is about the kids (but that's probably a Cornwall thing!)

🤪

[theremaybetulipsahead]

Personally I think the American school system of longer summer holidays and shorter breaks through the year sounds great. I find half terms in particular just break up our routine and if the kids go to a day camp it isn’t enough time to really settle and make friends.

[GonnaGetGoingReturns]

I have a few American friends and knew an American family with 4 adopted boys who used to stay in their house in Rye, Sussex every summer, am presuming the kids parents work allowed this or they had extra long holidays.

My American friend who had teachers for parents who divorced when she was young went to overnight summer camp once or twice but day camps otherwise. Her DM took her to Europe when she was old enough for culture. When she had her own kids she couldn’t afford overnight summer camp but did do day camps.

Other American friends are rich so do send their kids to overnight summer camp, based as one said around horses and something else for other kids. The kids are outdoorsy and sporty though. Reasoning behind the overnight camps is they can afford it, all parents work, one is a SAHM but says the kids get very bored even with day camps so the overnight ones are a good investment.

[ThickSkinnedSoWhat]

@Teabab

That's unfortunate. We had to prove qualifications if we were leading groups otherwise were generalists who helped support activities. Sounds like a very irresponsible organisation.

To be fair it was about a decade ago, so unsure if anything has changed. I couldn't believe they didn't ask for proof as some of them were reasonably dangerous activities if you didn't know what you were doing. Can't recall the name of the organisation but it certainly made me think twice and I'm quite particular about my own child who has been born since then, partially due to this.

[GlasgowGal82]

@kingtamponthefurred

Setting aside the ethics of 'fat camp', why would parents pay a lot of money to send their children to one and then undermine the programme by providing contraband high calorie foods?

Their kids are probably fat because their parents express love through food. I didn't work in a 'fat camp' but my best friend did and had exactly the same thing happen there. This was a really expensive camp, where parents were paying an absolute fortune for their kids to learn about fitness and nutrition. My friend was training as a nutritionist and the camp was staffed by fitness and exercise experts, or people who were training to do that type of work.

[Teeheehee1579]

We run forest day camps in the UK for the whole of the summer holidays for 6-13 year olds (every holiday actually!). They are not dissimilar to US camps but we don’t do overnight stays. Some kids come for weeks, make great friends and come back holiday after holiday with them. I’m biased but I think they are fab - kids off devices all day, doing a huge variety of activities in the woods. I worked on a US summer camp when I was 18 and had the most brilliant time (just looked them up actually - way more expensive per week than I would have thought!!!) and what we run now is not dissimilar to some US camps.

[DibbleDooDah]

@SaturdayGiraffe

Are all the staff DBS checked (the US equivalent)? A quick google reveals many stories of CSA. The Boy Scouts of America ones seem particularly rife.

Yes, of course! The industry is highly regulated and reputable camps will be registered with the American Camp Association who do spot checks - a bit like OFSTED. Then add in the requirements of their insurance companies - this is the land of the lawsuit!!!!

Small (often) religious camps might not be quite so stringent though………

The U.K. agencies who send young people to work at camps in the USA do not work with the Boy Scouts of America. Read into that what you will. They do work with the Girl Scouts of America though and they are fabulous.

[BeBraveProfessor]

Over 20 years ago age 19 I worked on a Girl Scout camp near the Hamptons on Long island (I had no idea how expensive the Hamptons were, having just left school in the UK.

It was great fun but I had no clue about teaching or looking after young children really bad a bit of babysitting! I was there to teach swimming and water sports on the basis of saying to the organisers I had a bit of swimming experience (which was exaggerated but I was a good swimmer!).

Apart from a lifeguard qualification I think that was all the checks run on me. Maybe a school reference was taken.

There were a mix of US/ UK and counsellors from other European countries but majority were probably US some of whom had attended the camp themselves.

I remember a proportion of children were from lower income homes in New York but many were from wealthy backgrounds. I'm sure being Girl Scouts it was heavily subsidised.

For the right children it was wonderful but we did have plenty of younger ones who were very homesick and being only 19 I had no idea how to comfort them. I also remember being asked to check for ticks and not having any idea what I was looking for! No google to ask then!

I'm sure it would be very different now but in 1997 we just muddled through and everyone survived!!

[Grumpyfroghats]

@theremaybetulipsahead

Personally I think the American school system of longer summer holidays and shorter breaks through the year sounds great. I find half terms in particular just break up our routine and if the kids go to a day camp it isn’t enough time to really settle and make friends.

I think it's a mixed bag. Good for teens to have a long summer holiday to get a job, pursue interests etc but I think younger kids benefit from half terms and have more learning loss over the summer holidays

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Grumpyfroghats

I think it's a mixed bag. Good for teens to have a long summer holiday to get a job, pursue interests etc but I think younger kids benefit from half terms and have more learning loss over the summer holidays

This. Masses of learning lost in the US system over the summer. Some states have more than 3 months off. I think the system we've got in the UK is perfect when it comes to holidays. It's far easier on the children that need school for other things than just learning, which in this age is quite a lot of kids.

[HamBone]

@BeBraveProfessor You really were thrown in at the deep end! My DD (18) has previously worked at pre-school summer camps so she has some experience looking after children and the camp has conducted a background check. She’s having training prior to the start-not sure what exactly, as she’s being awkward and telling me that everything’s in hand and she doesn’t need to give her nosy Mum all the details. 😂

[twilighteaser]

We have them too here in Italy, schools break up this week and are off until mid September. There are church run ones and private ones which most of my friends' kids go to as they are not religious. It costs around €200 per week per child. 9-6pm lunch & afternoon snack included. This is in a sports centre with outdoor pools etc. The kids are expected to do homework daily during the 3 months off.