American Summer camps

[Remotecontrolatmyside]

Why have American style summer camps ever taken off in the UK? Is it because it would be unaffordable for the vast majority of the UK population? They always look like so much fun in films (I know that might not be the case in reality) and would solve a lot of child care issues maybe?

[MrsFionaCharming]

I did 4 summers of camp America on a Girl Scout camp as a student. Absolutely loved every minute. Our sessions were only a week or 2 long each, and very few girls came to more than one session. But it was much more affordable than some of the camps mentioned upthread.

The following year I worked in the U.K. for one of the big day camp companies. The training was awful, the leadership terrible, I quit after a week and reported them to OFSTED.

If I have a daughter in the future, I’m looking forward to sending her to my camp in the US.

[Teeheehee1579]

Hampshire Bushcraft

[Teeheehee1579]

@goodkidsmaadhouse sorry - I don’t know why it just posted the name - it’s Hampshire bushcraft so local to Hampshire and an independent camp so not lots of camps all over the country I’m afraid. Is rather fab though - as close as I have ever seen to the US experience albeit not sleepover camp!

[Mammyloveswine]

@Remotecontrolatmyside

Why have American style summer camps ever taken off in the UK? Is it because it would be unaffordable for the vast majority of the UK population? They always look like so much fun in films (I know that might not be the case in reality) and would solve a lot of child care issues maybe?

Too many murderers like Michael Myers..,

[steff13]

@Mammyloveswine

Too many murderers like Michael Myers..,

I think you may be thinking of Mrs. Vorhees/Jason Vorhees. Michael Myers kills people on Halloween.

[User48321]

I looked the scheme up (is it BUNAC?) recently and they still pay staff almost nothing. It was something like $100 a week, during which you're responsible for a group of children. You get around $20 a week more if you look after children with special needs. It's a big ask - an 18 year old with no prior experience and almost no training, put in full time charge of a child with a serious disability.

[Cantstandbullshitanymore]

@Belmondo

That's really useful, thanks 👍 will investigate the shorter ones!

My daughter is going to her first sleepover camp with the girls scout this summer and it’s a 3 night sampler to try it out. When we went for the open day she was excited and was asking if we cans extend to a full week but we will do that next year if it goes well this year. If girls scout have camps nearby you can look into it.

The plan is for us to spend some alone time at a lovely town Lake Geneva in Wisconsin not far from the camp and if this works this will be our week to spend time together outside smalls vacations with our daughter.

Usually we use the city run camp in Chicago which is amazing value at $300 for 6 weeks with lunch and so many activities like archery, fishing, arts etc and then a week each at the equivalent of the natural history museum, the aquarium or the planetarium and the rest at home plus vacation . It’s worked so far she always has an amazing summer and hasn’t suffered from knowledge loss.

[SweetSakura]

I used to go on some residential camp for a week or so every year in my teens (40 now). I had the best time, made friends from all over the country, tried all sorts of new activities. Great memories.

[SweetSakura]

Also did sail training weeks a few times which was amazing.

And french residential camp.

It gave me a much broader outlook and got me really into sailing and watersports. I learnt so much about myself from the sail training in particular, I credit that (and the subsequent yachting I did) with being as much a contributor to my success as my very prestigious degree. I learnt so much about leadership and communication and handling stressful situations (like packing sails away at the top of a huge mast in a storm...)

I know there are some badly run places and that puts people off, but all my experiences were so positive

[ErrolTheDragon]

Dd went to the U.K. Camp Quest for several years, it was a good combination of activities. Unfortunately, as far as I can see it hasn't restarted post-covid.

[DibbleDooDah]

@User48321

I looked the scheme up (is it BUNAC?) recently and they still pay staff almost nothing. It was something like $100 a week, during which you're responsible for a group of children. You get around $20 a week more if you look after children with special needs. It's a big ask - an 18 year old with no prior experience and almost no training, put in full time charge of a child with a serious disability.

Camp counsellors travel on a J-1 visa which is a cultural exchange visa. The type of work you can do on a J-1 visa is very restricted and it’s short term work.

The camp provides you with travel to camp, full board and lodging whilst there and pays a significant amount of money to the agency you are hired through (Camp America, Camp Leaders, Americamp, Bunac etc). It works out in the region of $4k-$5k. You are given “pocket money” and not a wage.

Anyone who looks at camp as a way to make lots of money or a way to travel around the USA is in the wrong place. Each year we would have counsellors who didn’t like working with children, didn’t realise how much hard work it would be or thought their life would be hanging out by the lake getting a tan.

The great majority of counsellors are 19+ as camp directors like them to have completed one year of university. There’s usually much longer orientation sessions at special needs camps prior to the campers arriving to ensure all staff members have received suitable training. People aren’t placed at special needs camps unless they request it - it’s not for everyone.

[goodkidsmaadhouse]

@Teeheehee1579

@goodkidsmaadhouse sorry - I don’t know why it just posted the name - it’s Hampshire bushcraft so local to Hampshire and an independent camp so not lots of camps all over the country I’m afraid. Is rather fab though - as close as I have ever seen to the US experience albeit not sleepover camp!

It looks great, what a brilliant place to work. We have similar day camps where I am (northern UK so a long way from Hampshire!), the kids absolutely love them.

[mathanxiety]

@HamBone

@Foxesandsquirrels Yes, the learning loss is a big issue. They are assigned summer work, but it’s not the same.
I’m a big fan of 6 week summer holidays.

They do year round school in some inner city areas.

My own local elementary and high school districts offer free school meals year round - non perishable items are picked up at the schools once a week in the summer and winter breaks.

All the schools in my local area give out summer math packets to complete. Elementary school students ta are taken to the local libraries to get library cards and a tour of the facilities, with the hope that they'll be able to use them. The high school requires summer math packets be completed and handed in by the first week of the school year, and there is assigned summer reading too, with reflections required in the first week of the new semester too.

Learning loss? Depends what you consider falls into the category of 'learning'.

American schools tend to have a holistic idea of what constitutes learning - it encompasses social, emotional, and physical development, not just mastery in the academic sense.

Hence all the emphasis on extracurricular activities, volunteering, etc. Hence also the myriad programmes and facilities available to kids in most city and suburban areas, from church camps to park district enrichment offerings to camps focusing on sport, art, performing arts, music, etc. Hence also the emphasis on youth summer employment - the local big city hopes to employ about 40k teens in various roles this summer.

The long summer break (which happens in most other countries in the developed world, fwiw,) gives kids the chance to grow and learn in a great many ways.

[HoldingTheDoor]

People aren’t placed at special needs camps unless they request it - it’s not for everyone.

A friend's 18 year old daughter has just gone and they pushed hard to try to get her to work in a SN camp in spite of having no experience whatsoever. She didn't go but they certainly tried.

[DibbleDooDah]

@HoldingTheDoor Then I would seriously question the agency she was looking at going to the USA with.

I worked for one of the agencies for many years. They will encourage you to consider properly what sort of camp you want to go to as it can limit your options but nobody would have been put forward for a special needs camp unless they were happy to do so and / or had experience. It’s not in anybody’s best interest not to.

I would always get younger female candidates to consider working at Girl Scout camps but never special needs unless they specifically requested.

[stargirl1701]

@BeBraveProfessor

Gotta be Camp Blue Bay! I was there in '96 and '97 as a lifeguard.

[HamBone]

@mathanxiety I can only speak from my own kids’ experience ( so just two out of thousands)! Despite the summer work, we struggled with the long summer break and if I’m completely honest, I was angry with my American husband for not having a practical conversation with me about the school system here before I agreed to move (for a job opportunity for him). I’m not sure whether I’d have agreed if I’d known how hard it was to manage the long summer holidays when you’re both working. I do feel that learning loss occurred, despite the summer work and our best efforts.

Perhaps if we’d had grandparents who’d offered to take them for a while it would’ve helped.😂 As it was, we’ve spent a lot of money and I don’t know how much more my children have got out of them compared with six weeks in the UK.

[BeBraveProfessor]

@stargirl1701 that's the place! wondered if someone would recognise it! Great summer but I was so totally green about the whole thing! We must have worked together as I was also a lifeguard in 1997.

Looks like it's still going strong.

www.gsnc.org/en

[Honeychickpea]

@HamBone

@mathanxiety I can only speak from my own kids’ experience ( so just two out of thousands)! Despite the summer work, we struggled with the long summer break and if I’m completely honest, I was angry with my American husband for not having a practical conversation with me about the school system here before I agreed to move (for a job opportunity for him). I’m not sure whether I’d have agreed if I’d known how hard it was to manage the long summer holidays when you’re both working. I do feel that learning loss occurred, despite the summer work and our best efforts.

Perhaps if we’d had grandparents who’d offered to take them for a while it would’ve helped.😂 As it was, we’ve spent a lot of money and I don’t know how much more my children have got out of them compared with six weeks in the UK.

In my experience grandparents in the US are far more likely to offer to help pay for camp than to take the grandchildren for a while.

[Grumpyfroghats]

There are plenty of academic studies of learning loss. There will always be people who cannot see any fault in their country like a certain poster on here who blindly defends the US system on every Mumsnet thread...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/07/10/children-lose-up-to-40-of-learning-over-summer-breakso-imagine-what-lockdown-will-do/

As I said before, my personal view is that long summer holidays have benefits for teens who can get jobs and follow their interests but I don't think the evidence supports it for younger children

[mathanxiety]

As I said before, my personal view is that long summer holidays have benefits for teens who can get jobs and follow their interests but I don't think the evidence supports it for younger children

By that reasoning, all children in all countries where the summer break is longer than that of the UK should be behind the UK in academic attainment.

I suspect a little research would debunk the theory.

The make or break factor when it comes to academic attainment is socio economic status and educational level of parents.

[Grumpyfroghats]

There is tons of research on summer learning loss. Lots of American school districts have been reading it and reducing their summer holiday length accordingly.

But of course it isn't the only factor so it's not as simple as you suggest to isolate it.

Most international school system rankings don't rate the US or the UK very highly relative to other developed countries.

But I realise that anything that isn't YAY AMERICA isn't going to do it for you...

[mathanxiety]

Even within the UK, Northern Ireland usually has a strong record in academic attainment despite having a holiday schedule that is more aligned with that of the Republic of Ireland than that of England and Wales.

[mathanxiety]

But I realise that anything that isn't YAY AMERICA isn't going to do it for you...

There's no need for personal digs.

Either your opinions are backed up by evidence or statistics or they're not. If you choose to interpret factual statements as attacks on the UK or American flag waving then I suggest that's a You problem.